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jjane45
09-07-2012, 04:03 AM
I am more inclined to think that for whatever political / stubborn / pecking order reason, they prefer to not let those talented newbies take things for granted and have them wait their turn.

And to keep Yan Han junior :wall:

jlai
09-07-2012, 04:42 AM
I had thought of that, but then if that was the case, CHN really would have added her right away after the initial assignments were out. And they didn't even use that tactic on Yan Han.

I am more inclined to think that for whatever political / stubborn / pecking order reason, they prefer to not let those talented newbies take things for granted and have them wait their turn. China was full of talented singles skaters but they just kept sending the disappointing ones like Wu Jialiang, Guan Jinlin, Liu Yan (post 2006), Geng Bingwa and Zhu Qiuying etc for no reason. There was no programme.

China isn't the only one with a 'wait your turn' attitude. :(

That said, I think Yan Han's case is different from Ji Jun as China wants to leave open the option of sending Yan Han to junior world again. Anyway, right now, if Yan Han does well nationally he still can do 4CC. While I don't agree with Yan Han being junior again, the option of him doing senior competition at 4CC or even worlds is still open.

Of course as a fan, I feel robbed about not seeing the new promising junior world medalists at the GP. :drama:

Vagabond
09-07-2012, 05:47 AM
Thanks!

She may need a higher score to meet the TES minimums, were she to earn the single spot for London. I wonder when the ISU will announce if the lower the World minimums, but there are Senior B's between Ca Nats and the final Worlds deadline, if they don't or the minimums are still too high.

Does the Canadian lady actually need to meet the TES minimum? Canada is the host country. Until now, the host has always been able to have a direct entry into the SP and FS at any ISU Championship, even when there were Qualifying or Preliminary Rounds and the host's entry would not otherwise have advanced. I'm not sure that's changed.

Marco
09-07-2012, 09:44 AM
China isn't the only one with a 'wait your turn' attitude. :(

That said, I think Yan Han's case is different from Ji Jun as China wants to leave open the option of sending Yan Han to junior world again. Anyway, right now, if Yan Han does well nationally he still can do 4CC. While I don't agree with Yan Han being junior again, the option of him doing senior competition at 4CC or even worlds is still open.

Of course as a fan, I feel robbed about not seeing the new promising junior world medalists at the GP. :drama:

Well, I am going to convince myself that it's going to be easier for Yan Han to win JGPs and medal at JGPF and hence get ISU points than for him to medal at senior GPs and make GPF. I hope the Chinese Fed keeps an open mind about sending Yan Han to Worlds, especially if he significantly beats Song Nan at 4CCs. (if Song Nan beats Yan Han soundly at 4CCs, then shut me up :P)

Song Nan had to rely on jumps to be competitive but Yan Han was already equaling Farris and Brown in PCS. If Yan Han competes and skates well at the GPs, his PCS can climb further. I really think he has a better shot than Song Nan in getting China a second spot for the men for Sochi.

kwanfan1818
09-07-2012, 09:45 AM
Does the Canadian lady actually need to meet the TES minimum? Canada is the host country. Until now, the host has always been able to have a direct entry into the SP and FS at any ISU Championship, even when there were Qualifying or Preliminary Rounds and the host's entry would not otherwise have advanced. I'm not sure that's changed.
Yes. The host nation has not been able to enter a skater automatically into the first phase of the competition since the 2009-10 season the latest, before minimum score requirements were added. According to the 2010 Special Regs Rule 378 paragraph 8, the following text was added for the 2010 version of the document (emphasis added),


In case the Competitor(s) of the Host Member went through the normal qualifying procedure and did not qualify for the first segment of a Championships/discipline according to paragraphs 5 or 6 above, one Competitor of the Host Member shall have the right to additionally enter and participate in each discipline (Ladies, Men, Pair Skating and Ice Dance), provided the Host Member Competitor(s) fulfils the Minimum Score requirements according to paragraph 3 above. This competitor will have the starting number one (1) and in Single Skating the first warm up group will be exceeded with one (1) Skater; in Pair Skating and Ice Dance, if necessary, the first warm up group will be divided into two subgroups with a separate warm-up for each of them.

Paragraphs 5 and 6, which refer to direct vs. indirect entries have been nullified due to decisions taken earlier this year and listed in Communication 1742 #7, but the principle is the same: in order for the host nation to enter a skater into the first phase of a competition, that skater must have met the minimum score. There's nothing in the 2012 decisions that exempts the host skaters from meeting the minimum scores. 1742 #7 also explicitly replaces the minimum scores listed in paragraph 3 of the 2010 document with the new minimums added this year, including minimums for Jr. Worlds.

The ISU has been releasing updated Constitutions and Special Regs biannually in even years, but I haven't seen any 2012 updates. Communication 1742, released on 27 June, refers to the 2010 document.

Ziggy
09-07-2012, 12:31 PM
Wonder what's behind Skate Canada's non-Canadian picks...

Well done on supporting your skaters Skate Canada. :wall:

Why not give an opportunity to DeSanctis who performed reasonably well last season?


Yretha Silete's spots are still to be replaced. But the Feds will probably chose Helgesson and Lacoste cause they're lesser threats:lol::rolleyes:

Given how Nagasu skated in the Summer, I wouldn't be so sure. :P


In related news, at least Li Zijun finally has her second assignment. I don't know whose brain was at work when they decided to give an assignment to Geng Bingwa before securing a second one for Li Zijun. :scream:

They were surely hoping that she would get a second spot as a replacement, leaving their host pick for somebody else.

Re: 'Wait your turn'/'saving face' attitude. It's really hurting Chinese skating. They have tons and tons of skaters in all disciplines who are never getting a chance to compete internationally. :(

iceflame
09-07-2012, 05:36 PM
Well, I am going to convince myself that it's going to be easier for Yan Han to win JGPs and medal at JGPF and hence get ISU points than for him to medal at senior GPs and make GPF. I hope the Chinese Fed keeps an open mind about sending Yan Han to Worlds, especially if he significantly beats Song Nan at 4CCs. (if Song Nan beats Yan Han soundly at 4CCs, then shut me up :P)

Song Nan had to rely on jumps to be competitive but Yan Han was already equaling Farris and Brown in PCS. If Yan Han competes and skates well at the GPs, his PCS can climb further. I really think he has a better shot than Song Nan in getting China a second spot for the men for Sochi.

I'm afraid that you will be dissapointed that Yan Han may not compete at 4cc for 90% chance, not to mention Senior Worlds. The decision has been made and he is going to be held back in juniors for another season, for some reasons:scream: I don't think Chinese Fed cares about how many spots they will have for the men for Sochi.

love_skate2011
09-07-2012, 05:48 PM
I'm afraid that you will be dissapointed that Yan Han may not compete at 4cc for 90% chance, not to mention Senior Worlds. The decision has been made and he is going to be held back in juniors for another season, for some reasons:scream: I don't think Chinese Fed cares about how many spots they will have for the men for Sochi.

which I find odd considering China has amazing list of juniors and upcoming men skaters but are being held back in favor of their current inconsistent seniors :scream:

feraina
09-07-2012, 06:43 PM
I'm afraid that you will be dissapointed that Yan Han may not compete at 4cc for 90% chance, not to mention Senior Worlds. The decision has been made and he is going to be held back in juniors for another season, for some reasons:scream: I don't think Chinese Fed cares about how many spots they will have for the men for Sochi.

I agree with you, there's almost no chance of Han Yan being sent to any senior ISU championships this year. Even if Song Nan gets injured or something, the other seniors will have priority over him.

At least Han Yan did apparently get sent to Lake Arrowhead earlier this summer -- though for what I don't know. Sadly, he still didn't get to work with any foreign choreographers, again, despite what the federation promised him last season. :(

I think it's all down to politics over which coaches have the most clout...

Kelvster
09-07-2012, 07:49 PM
It's a sad situation re Han yan. Talents must be nurtured and exposure must be given ... Yet the old fashioned mindsets hinder everything

Well, nan song is not bad. Hope he can compete in Sochi and finish in the top ten there. That would be quite an achievement already

Gliding on ice
09-07-2012, 08:47 PM
IMHO, Han Yan still being held in the Junior circuit is a combination of the Chinese Federation not giving enough attention to the discipline of men’s singles, underestimating their young star’s potential, and their ultimate reluctance to reject the tradition of keeping skaters in the junior circuit till they age out :scream:

love_skate2011
09-07-2012, 09:19 PM
I don't get this reputation saving face at all
why sacrifice it when you have a good chance of your skaters giving you 2 or even 3 spots for an Olympics

missing
09-07-2012, 09:42 PM
Is it Han Yan or Yan Han? I know the last name should go first, but I'm uncertain which is his last name and which is his first.

I have great fondness for skaters with easy to spell names, but I'd hate to write such an easy name incorrectly.

love_skate2011
09-07-2012, 09:43 PM
Is it Han Yan or Yan Han? I know the last name should go first, but I'm uncertain which is his last name and which is his first.

I have great fondness for skaters with easy to spell names, but I'd hate to write such an easy name incorrectly.

Its last name first (Han) , then his first name (Yan)

SamuraiK
09-07-2012, 11:09 PM
Yan is actually his last name.