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jlai
08-12-2012, 01:52 PM
Except in Nagasu's case

if she skates well at GP: she loses a chance to get ISU points, some prize money, a GP medal and a GPF berth.

if she skates poorly at sectionals: she doesn't qualify for Nationals


And she got that chance every past year since winning nationals, and she has yet to make GPF or have a consistently stellar season. Sometimes leaving skaters at home, or missing out on nationals, isn't such a bad thing. Last time Nagasu missed out on US nationals, she came back the next year winning junior ladies. In her case, the issue is her head, her heart and her fight. If she wants this, she'll fight for it ala Zhang, Czisny (and to a smaller extent, Wagner), who went from outside top six/ten at nationals to being a US elite again .


For me, it's more that it's nice for other skaters to have a chance to get to nationals. Skaters like Czisny, Zhang, Nagasu or Flatt should have no trouble getting through regionals/sectionals, but it means that one fewer skater gets the chance to compete. And Midwesterns, at least, is shaping up to be potentially pretty deep in senior ladies this year (Flatt, Bereswill, Gilles, Dobbs, Baga, Jiang, Miller, Dinh, Cain, and Morgan Bell could each potentially be there).

I feel for the ladies who may miss out on regionals if Nagasu indeed competes at her pacific regional, but what benefits other skaters shouldn't influence where Nagasu should compete, IMHO.

Marco
08-12-2012, 02:22 PM
And she got that chance every past year since winning nationals, and she has yet to make GPF or have a consistently stellar season. Sometimes leaving skaters at home, or missing out on nationals, isn't such a bad thing.

If she isn't a early season skater, isn't it all the better reason for Nagasu to do a 2nd GP instead of going to Sectionals? If she bombs at that GP, there's that, but she still gets to go to Nationals. If she bombs at Sectionals, she doesn't go to Nationals.

FWIW, she has been left off the world team for 2 consecutive seasons and I don't see her any more motivated from within than before.

jlai
08-12-2012, 02:26 PM
If she isn't a early season skater, isn't it all the better reason for Nagasu to do a 2nd GP instead of going to Sectionals? If she bombs at that GP, there's that, but she still gets to go to Nationals. If she bombs at Sectionals, she doesn't go to Nationals.

FWIW, she has been left off the world team for 2 consecutive seasons and I don't see her any more motivated from within than before.

If she isn't any more motivated then I don't think it matters whether she gets a second gp. eta: Nagasu won't have to do Pacific Coast sectional, btw. Just regional which she should be just fine (That regional, the qualifiers are probably Lam, Hicks, Keiser, and Nagasu in any order, and that is only if none gets a bye for doing another event)

ETA: re: MW sectionals. That does look to be a tough field, and I hope a skater makes JGPF

Sylvia
08-12-2012, 03:06 PM
Nagasu won't have to do Pacific Coast sectional, btw. Just regional which she should be just fine (That regional, the qualifiers are probably Lam, Hicks, Keiser, and Nagasu in any order, and that is only if none gets a bye for doing another event)
jlai, I've replied to your post in the U.S. Ladies thread in the Trash Can (since it's off-topic here :)): http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3656659#post3656659

ETA the direct links to the GP roster tables by discipline:
http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2012/gpsladies.htm
http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2012/gpsmen.htm
http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2012/gpspairs.htm
http://www.isuresults.com/events/gp2012/gpsdance.htm

smarts1
08-12-2012, 04:47 PM
Nagasu's situation still is somewhat different from the other skaters mentioned. Although she tanked at nationals last year, her skates early in the season weren't horrendous. She medaled at TEB and I suspect TEB officials chose Gao over Nagasu becuase Nagasu is a better medal conteder/better skater and they don't want to hurt their ladies. Nagasu still skated much better than Gao the whole season (excluding Nationals) IMO. Gao has been to Junior Worlds three years in a row and still hasn't received a medal, while her less consistent teammate, Agnes has medalled twice.

jlai
08-12-2012, 04:54 PM
People were complaining how skaters who were top 5 at nationals dont get a gp, and now that Gao gets one ahead of a 7th place finisher at naitonals, people complain too. ;)

toddlj
08-12-2012, 05:30 PM
I can't imagine Czisny will be ready for her GP (NHK), perhaps Nagasu will get that one. She's popular in Japan.

kwanfan1818
08-12-2012, 06:08 PM
People were complaining how skaters who were top 5 at nationals dont get a gp, and now that Gao gets one ahead of a 7th place finisher at naitonals, people complain too. ;)

GP spots, apart from host spots, have nothing to do with Nationals results (see Dornbush). I'm annoyed that unless Team Nagasu/USFS turned down the spot, the GP Announcement rules are worth less than toilet paper, which is, at least, useful.

Hedwig
08-12-2012, 06:29 PM
GP spots, apart from host spots, have nothing to do with Nationals results (see Dornbush). I'm annoyed that unless Team Nagasu/USFS turned down the spot, the GP Announcement rules are worth less than toilet paper, which is, at least, useful.

This.

And this.

jlai
08-12-2012, 06:50 PM
Whi
GP spots, apart from host spots, have nothing to do with Nationals results (see Dornbush). .

I know that, but there will be complaints regardless of who is sent (ie see complaints re: Armin not being sent)

ISU doesnt follow its rules, we know that already. :)

NMURA
08-12-2012, 06:59 PM
I can't imagine Czisny will be ready for her GP (NHK), perhaps Nagasu will get that one. She's popular in Japan.

Yes, that's the most likely case. French federation might have considered that.

b-man
08-12-2012, 07:04 PM
Nagasu's situation still is somewhat different from the other skaters mentioned. Although she tanked at nationals last year, her skates early in the season weren't horrendous. She medaled at TEB and I suspect TEB officials chose Gao over Nagasu becuase Nagasu is a better medal conteder/better skater and they don't want to hurt their ladies. Nagasu still skated much better than Gao the whole season (excluding Nationals) IMO. Gao has been to Junior Worlds three years in a row and still hasn't received a medal, while her less consistent teammate, Agnes has medalled twice.

Well last year, her skate at SC was pretty bad, very tentative, 5th in the SP and 5th in the LP for a 151 score, yet only a week later at CoC, she was 2nd in both SP and LP with a 173 score behind only Kostner. Went up 20+ points in a week. Her silver medal at TEB was in the 2010-11 season.

Hedwig
08-12-2012, 07:04 PM
Yes, that's the most likely case. French federation might have considered that.


But they had no right to consider that. :confused: According to the rules anyway.

NMURA
08-12-2012, 08:29 PM
But they had no right to consider that. :confused: According to the rules anyway.

What rule? The French federation can ignore Nagasu if they want a relatively weak field. Any rules issued from the ISU are just guidelines, not mandatory. I'd like to see Nagasu at NHK trophy. So I shall welcome their consideration.

IF the French federation had chosen Phaneuf as a replacement. Do you think anyone (from the ISU or other federations) protests their decision? I don't think so. In the case of GPS, the host federations always have their choices and they are respected.

Tammi
08-12-2012, 09:04 PM
Since Zijun Li has been removed, maybe it was simply a data entry mistake (kind of like when the ISU recently added Katarina KNEZEVIC to the Skate America roster). Or maybe someone at USFS challenged the choice based on their interpretation of the replacement rules:

The alternate list needs to be worked through in ranking order for the top 24 ranked skaters/couples according to their Season’s Best. All skaters/couples of the alternate list will be grouped in top ranked groups of five (5) skaters, out of which the respective Organizing Member may pick one skater/couple for invitation.

I'm not a lawyer and I've never played one on TV, but it does sound like the second sentence is meant to start with #25 on the seasons best list. Otherwise, then the second sentence nullifies the first and the mention of top 24 being worked through in ranked order wouldn't even need to be there. Seems that the host pick for the LOC is much looser than last season, but still some definite rules for replacements.