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oleada
06-04-2012, 02:58 AM
Or better yet, make a new thread to discuss it so the JGP thread can have actual info instead of just nonsense.

allezfred
06-04-2012, 11:13 AM
Please let's not rehash this topic any further in the JGP thread. Thank you.


It's a much more appropriate thread to rehash it in if it has to be done.

sandra_persch
06-06-2012, 05:47 AM
I can't believe that we have the first withdrawl already

Alexandra NAZAROVA / Maxim NIKITIN UKR have been crossed out at Rostelecom Cup

guess they want to stay junior?

kwanfan1818
06-06-2012, 07:02 AM
Without the GP announcement with this year's alternates rules, it's hard to say who is in the running to replace them. Since they allowed split couples to be in the initial selections, it isn't clear whether they are still high on the replacements list (last year, second after comeback skaters) or on it at all if they were given initial assignments. (Of course, they can be chosen as host picks if they have one at another event.)

The only split couple in the initial selection is Gilles/Poirier, and they already have two (Skate Canada and Trophee Bompard). Even if they allow couples to be added after the initial GP deadline as they get together, it's pretty late for Crone to find one, since she and Sorensen just split.

Monko/Khaliavin should be considered comeback skaters for replacements purposes, since they were out of international competition last season, but they already are assigned to Rostelecom Cup. (They didn't take the one-time option to get two in the initial selection.)

The top-ranked Top 24 SB with one assignment is Tobias/Stagniunas (18 SB, Skate America), followed by Chock/Bates (20 SB), who have China the week before.

euterpe
06-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Monko/Khaliavin should be considered comeback skaters for replacements purposes, since they were out of international competition last season, but they already are assigned to Rostelecom Cup. (They didn't take the one-time option to get two in the initial selection.)



A comeback skater is one who has finished top 6 at Senior Worlds and did not compete since then. M/K won JUNIOR Worlds 2011 and that is not the same thing at all.

Marta24
06-06-2012, 05:47 PM
Orford/Williams got the spot at Rostelecom Cup

toddlj
06-06-2012, 05:59 PM
Orford/Williams got the spot at Rostelecom Cup

O/W are #22 in World Standings

euterpe
06-06-2012, 06:17 PM
O/W are #22 in World Standings

Ralph/Hill are #21 in World Standings, but on the SB list, O/W are #21 and R/H #25.

I believe it is the SB list they use for replacements.

kwanfan1818
06-06-2012, 06:22 PM
A comeback skater is one who has finished top 6 at Senior Worlds and did not compete since then. M/K won JUNIOR Worlds 2011 and that is not the same thing at all.
You're right: junior placement doesn't count. M/K can only get Rostelecom Cup, and the Russian Fed assigned it to them, unlike Skate Canada, which left P/I out in the cold.

It will be interesting to see if the rules changed to allow the host to choose among the skaters in the Top 24 SB with one rather than go in strict order -- strict order was specified last year -- or if Tobias/Stagniunas passed on a second. Last season there was speculation that Joshi Helgesson, who was Top 24 WS, turned down a second when it was her turn and the host chose from Top 75.

Russia/Japan (O/W's original assignment) is probably the toughest travel schedule for NA skaters.

SUN
06-06-2012, 06:36 PM
I believe it is the SB list they use for replacements.

You are right. The list of alternates is arranged based on the SB only (no matter if somebody has 1 event or not).
But the organizers have some flexibility. The can pick anyone from the top 5.An these top 5 will be updated when someone is picked from this group. Now that Orford \Williams (I think they were 3rd or 4th in this list) are picked for the second event, the couple with the 6th SB moved to the top 5.

kwanfan1818
06-06-2012, 07:15 PM
O/W were #21 in the SB list.

Top 5 would be new this year. Last year the third and fourth bullet points (after comeback skaters and split couples) were:


• Skaters in proper order of top 24 season’s best would be next.
• Skaters from the top 24 who have only one event will be listed in the next order and should be
picked in that order (done by points).


Does that mean that it's the top 5 SB with one or none, and that Top 24 SB and WS can be skipped for a second, while skaters in the Top 75 with none can get a first (or second)? This could mean more spots for more skaters and going into Top 75 or deeper into Top 75, thus spreading the wealth, since there's incentive for a host to get the weakest competition for their own skaters.

Top 5 after Orford/Williams:


Tobias/Stagniunas (18-USA)
Chock/Bates (20-CHN)
Alessandrini/Vaturi (22-USA)
Slobina/Sitnikov (23-CAN)
Ralph/Hill (25-CAN, also 21 WS)


If Top 24 SB and Top 24 WS are taken into consideration, then


Guignard/Fabbri (29-CHN, also 18 WS), assuming Zenkova/Sinitsin stay Junior,
Pushkash-Guerreiro (32-FRA, 17 WS)
Yu/Wang (50-JPN, 20WS)


would be next, in that order to move into the top 5.

If only SB is taken into consideration, then


Guignard/Fabbri (29-CHN, also 18 WS)
Heekin-Canedy/Dun (30)
Pushkash-Guerreiro (32-FRA, 17 WS)


would be next.

Ziggy
06-07-2012, 05:08 AM
Can somebody explain why Orford/Williams (21st on the SB list) were picked over Tobias/Stagniunas (18th) and Chock/Bates (20th)?

I find it highly unlikely that both of these teams would pass on a second spot, so I guess ISU is again making it up as they go along? :rolleyes:


Why in the friggin world would China give a friggin damn about friggin WTT? Where is this coming from? Unless, I see the Chinese Fed forcing Shen/Zhao to compete at WTT, I am assuming the folks at the Chinese Fed are not idiots.

Because China is a collectivist society therefore the team performance is probably seen as more important than the performances of individual skaters.


Artur Gachinski is just one year older than Joshua and Jason and already will be in his third Senior season this year. The Federation supported him when he indicated that he was ready, and so he moved up. Was he too young in his first Senior season? He was 17 - the same age Joshua and Jason are now. And he won the World bronze medal. I'm not saying exactly the same thing could happen, but it sure shows that if you support your skater by backing them, good things can happen.

The federation supported Gachinski going senior because they had no successful senior men at that time.

That is certainly not the USFS' problem. ;)


I'm still baffled that Armin didn't get an assignment and Dornbush got 2 (?).

Then I will reply again:

Dornbush has a higher WR than Ihaveasnoozeday and the latter had a low SB as well.

Why would he get assigments?

kwanfan1818
06-07-2012, 05:31 AM
SUN explained that the host Fed can choose any one if the top 5 with none or one in SB order, so O/W could be chosen over T/S. (The team in between was already assigned to RC. )
It looks like a rule change from last season.

Ziggy
06-07-2012, 05:33 AM
SUN explained that the host Fed can choose any one if the top 5 with none or one in SB order, so O/W could be chosen over T/S. (The team in between was already assigned to RC. )
It looks like a rule change from last season.

Ahhhh how could I have missed that post. :o

So basically Orford/Williams have been chosen as the weakest team of the five. Nice. :P

icellist
06-07-2012, 06:53 AM
if they're going by top 5 from SB now, then for the ladies...

Alissa Czisny
Kiira Korpi
Mirai Nagasu
Sofia Biryukova
Polina Korebeynikova

who's the weakest link of the 5? XD