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Sylvia
05-24-2012, 05:05 PM
But it is galling to see Dmitriev, 14th at JW, 37th WR and 29th SB, getting an invitation while JW silver medalist Farris gets none.
Why is it galling? Farris very likely would have received at least 1, of not 2, GP assignments had his name been submitted by USFS.

I've posted a version of this before, but competing at the senior level nationally and internationally presents a very different kind of mental pressure/challenge, and I believe Farris can still work on improving his consistency in both programs at the same competition (building on what he did at the end of his season at 2012 Junior Worlds), regardless of what level he competes at internationally. In fact, he may be dealing with the pressure of high expectations in the coming season (matching/surpassing his junior international results in 2011-12), which could be a good thing if he is aiming for success in the long run.

haribobo
05-24-2012, 05:28 PM
That doesn't mean that the USFSA shouldn't speak with the skater & coach about why they think Plan B might be better -- but in the end, it would seem that it ought to be the skater's choice, and it seemed that Farris, at least, was blindsided.

It *seems* that way perhaps, but was it really? There's no facts to really support that he was "blindsided" by what happened.

euterpe
05-24-2012, 05:39 PM
Why is it galling? Farris very likely would have received at least 1, of not 2, GP assignments had his name been submitted by USFS.

THAT'S why it's galling!

Jammers
05-24-2012, 05:39 PM
How the heck did Artur Dmitriev get even one assignment next season? I could see if it was as a host pick for the COR but he got picked for the COC instead. :confused: I also thought that one country could not have three skaters be picked for a GP unless it's from their home country yet i see three Russian girls at TEB but only one US Lady. What's up with that?

toddlj
05-24-2012, 05:48 PM
It *seems* that way perhaps, but was it really? There's no facts to really support that he was "blindsided" by what happened.

Agreed, the only evidence we have is the now-deleted tweet, and even that could be interpreted to mean that he wanted to do senior; but his coach talked him out of it, or the USFSA talked him out of it, or his family talked him out of it, or he thought the better of it himself after discussion. To claim he had no say in the issue is an assumption, not a fact.

haribobo
05-24-2012, 06:10 PM
How the heck did Artur Dmitriev get even one assignment next season? I could see if it was as a host pick for the COR but he got picked for the COC instead. :confused: I also thought that one country could not have three skaters be picked for a GP unless it's from their home country yet i see three Russian girls at TEB but only one US Lady. What's up with that?

3 per country has always been allowed regardless of it being host country or not. Dmitriev deserves his spot if Russia submitted him. He's probably one of the top 5 guys competing for Russia at the moment, so whatevs. Let him compete and calm down.

pinky166
05-24-2012, 06:39 PM
I'd completely agree with you when it is the USFSA's choice, but when an athlete is guaranteed a spot under the ISU rules and then is apparently denied the spot by the USFSA, that's wrong. Should Barbie Long go out on the JGP? That's completely up to the USFSA. Should Abbott be denied the GP he earned because the USFSA was very disappointed in his results last year? I don't think so. Brown seems to have earned a spot based on last year's results. Unless the rules changed making that not so, or unless he violated some "morals clause," if he wanted the GP he should have gotten it. Ditto with Farris.

That doesn't mean that the USFSA shouldn't speak with the skater & coach about why they think Plan B might be better -- but in the end, it would seem that it ought to be the skater's choice, and it seemed that Farris, at least, was blindsided.

ITA. The tweet made it seem like Josh wasn't aware he would be competing on the JGP again, meaning when the USFS had the discussion with Josh's coaches where they convinced them to have him stay junior another season, Josh was left out of it. That's not right. I can sort of understand the USFS trying to talk him into a different decision, but if they are doing that, the skater in question should certainly be involved in the conversation. Even then, if the skater has a GP event guaranteed by a SB score, it's indication that the ISU considers he/she ready to compete on the GP, so the skater and coaching team should be able to make their decision without the USFS butting in.

They want to have the option of sending Josh to JW because they know he's a strong skater likely to help get maximum JGP spots for the US, but I also suspect they wanted to give the likes of Rippon, Miner, and Dornbush the best chance of getting 2 GPs each, and that kind of irks me. If it was Josh's decision to stay on the JGP, then I would totally respect that, but if he wanted to move up, the USFS should have let him even if it meant one/two/all of Rippon, Dornbush, and Miner would only get 1 assignment, Josh earned his 1 assignment and skated really well last season, so his getting 1 or 2 GP invites at the expense of Rippon or Dornbush not getting a 2nd would have been understandable. I just hope he gets treated fairly at Nationals...his performances at JW would have, IMO, made a strong case for being sent to Worlds this season, and if he skates well at next year's Nationals, I hope USFS doesn't hold his scores back to favor someone like Rippon or Dornbush unless they really earn it. If Josh can put the 4t in his FS with some success and skate otherwise like he did most of last season, then I'd definitely consider him a contender for the 2nd Worlds spot, the strength of his 3a coupled with a 4t would put him at an advantage over Rippon and Miner, and then Mahbanoozadeh and Razzano don't get as strong PCS marks as Farris internationally, and Dornbush really needs to start delivering to prove he's in the hunt again.

euterpe
05-24-2012, 07:32 PM
3 per country has always been allowed regardless of it being host country or not. Dmitriev deserves his spot if Russia submitted him. He's probably one of the top 5 guys competing for Russia at the moment, so whatevs. Let him compete and calm down.

But Dmitriev's WR, SB and JW stats did not put him in the guaranteed group. If Russia wanted him in the GP, they could have assigned him a COR spot. The big ?! is that he got an invitation.

kwanfan1818
05-24-2012, 08:09 PM
3 per country has always been allowed regardless of it being host country or not. Dmitriev deserves his spot if Russia submitted him. He's probably one of the top 5 guys competing for Russia at the moment, so whatevs. Let him compete and calm down.
Also as soon as all of the submitted skaters guaranteed their spots get them and the host picks are assigned, the hosts can choose anyone from the Top 75 SB list, instead of giving those guaranteed one a second. Dmitriev is SB 30, and his high score was from a JGP, where there are shorter programs and one less element. (The junior solo jump limitation in SP wouldn't have been a factor last season, since it was the lutz. Junior Men were limited to a flying sit spin and camel spin with one change of foot in the SP; Senior Men had limitations on only one spin, a camel or sit spin with one change of foot.)

Dmitriev's SB score was .76 below (SB 29) Rogozine's at Rostelecom Cup, and he got JPN.

NMURA
05-25-2012, 12:32 AM
China is not a country to care about maximizing JGP spots. They usually don't send skaters to JGP without pair competitions. They don't even use seven spots for any disciplines. If Yan moves up to the senior next season, only sure men are Zhang He and Jin Boyang. I think there are two reasons to let Yan stay junior.

As long as there's no chance for Chinese men to medal at Sochi Olympics (for that purpose, winning a medal at 2013 worlds is essential), they want to give an elder skater (Song) the chance in order of seniority (by virtue of Confucian values). Song can prove his "worth" under less pressured conditions and prepare for worlds. If Song should faces Yan at CoC, the international judges could dump him easily. That's not the case the Chinese federation wants.

They really care about qualifying for WTT. Considering 4CC is in Osaka (where Japan will send the A team) and China has only one worlds spot, Yan has the best chance gaining maximum points at JW. In this year, they lost to Italy by a small margin. That's mainly because of Kostner's "contribution". Very few people expect she can repeat that. If China could gain about the same points, they have the better chance in next year.

fscric
05-25-2012, 12:49 AM
They really care about qualifying for WTT. Considering 4CC is in Osaka (where Japan will send the A team) and China has only one worlds spot, Yan has the best chance gaining maximum points at JW. In this year, they lost to Italy by a small margin. That's mainly because of Kostner's "contribution". Very few people would expect she can repeat that. If China could gain about the same points, they have the better chance in next year.

I'm curious to know where do you get the idea that China cares about qualifying for WTT? Is there a link that you can point me to?

NMURA
05-25-2012, 12:55 AM
China is a country always place the state ahead of individuals and groups. Both Confucianism and communism support that doctrine. The format of WTT is very attractive for them. That's a good chance to prove the strength of the Chinese state sports. In other words, they don't want to lose to "small countries" like Italy.

jlai
05-25-2012, 01:10 AM
I agree that Chinese federation doesn't use up their JGP spots, and supporting an elder skater (Song) could be a factor. That said, I am not sure how much they care about WTT. I think perhaps they wanna keep the option of Yan Han doing jr world open.

fscric
05-25-2012, 01:15 AM
I agree that Chinese federation doesn't use up their JGP spots, and supporting an elder skater (Song) could be a factor. That said, I am not sure how much they care about WTT. I think perhaps they wanna keep the option of Yan Han doing jr world open.

I agree with this.

sap5
05-25-2012, 01:27 AM
wrong thread!