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Maofan7
05-19-2012, 05:57 PM
Short new article (http://fskating.com/2012/05/ilia-aberbukh-we-lost-a-generation-of-ice-dancers.html) featuring Ilia Averbukh. Article reads:-


Olympic silver medalist Ilia Averbukh expressed his opinion about the low results of Russian ice dancers. “Have Russian ice dance duos stuck in the last century? Yes, you are right, they have. This can be seen with the naked eye,” said Averbukh to Izvestia newspaper. ”The main problem, in my opinion, is that coaches don’t invite new choreographers. Seems like they think that know everything better than anyone else.” he continued. “Fortunately, recently the situation was improving. We have an ice dance team of Elena Ilinykh / Nikita Katsalapov, which already this season performed in tune with the times. They have a real chance to compete for medals at the Sochi Olympics. Of course, at some point we lost a whole generation of ice dancers, because our competitors are quickly adapting to the new rules. And we were moving sluggishly, because were confident that we just can’t lose leadership in this figure skating discipline.” Averbukh noted.

Russian ice dance is now finally on the rise. However, I think Victoria Sinitsina & Ruslan Zhiganshin have a much better chance of breaking through into the medals at worlds and Olympics than Ilinykh & Katsalapov in the coming years.

briancoogaert
05-19-2012, 06:12 PM
I love Ilinikh & Katsalapov's basics, but I think the really need new choreographers !

nuge
05-19-2012, 10:13 PM
I love Ilinikh & Katsalapov's basics, but I think the really need new choreographers !



I agree I mean Ave Maria was zzzz:scream:Just didn't suit them and was old fashioned.
Will be interesting to see if Zhulin can do some magic with B/S :shuffle:

Cherub721
05-19-2012, 11:38 PM
I love Ilinikh & Katsalapov's basics, but I think the really need new choreographers !

I guess that was Averbukh's point. Oh well. :lol: Too bad he didn't become the prez of the Russian skating federation. He actually has ideas.

caseyedwards
05-20-2012, 01:19 AM
They are moving very sluggishly. It's not enough to get level 3's and 4's sometimes. You need to get them all the time! Not any level 2's in step sequences and lifts and sometimes even spins. No team, not even a Russian team in Sochi, is going to get anywhere with level 3's in step sequences or twizzles or lifts. Sometimes it is worse than level 3? I have wondering is it bad skating skills that makes steps sequences so bad in levels or is it bad construction of the step sequences. It's all about the step sequences and all the Russian teams now just couldn't be more pathetic a lot of the time with the step sequences!

sk8erluv88
05-20-2012, 02:48 AM
woah---i dont think getting level 3 is something that should be considered pathetic...

Macassar88
05-20-2012, 03:21 AM
woah---i dont think getting level 3 is something that should be considered pathetic...

If you're competing against teams that are getting all level fours, it is important to get all the points possible
And the Russians have been struggling to get level 3's. I think RT and IK were even getting level 1's on some elements

caseyedwards
05-20-2012, 04:17 AM
Level 3 is not what I was calling pathetic. It's the 1's and 2's that sometimes occur. 3 is not something that's going to work. Level 3 should be the absolute floor for I/K B/S or R/T but it's not. 1 or 2 is.

Carmen Ovsiannikov
05-20-2012, 06:36 AM
Thanks Maofan7.


.....Russian ice dance is now finally on the rise. However, I think Victoria Sinitsina & Ruslan Zhiganshin have a much better chance of breaking through into the medals at worlds and Olympics than Ilinykh & Katsalapov in the coming years.

Ilia is right and I'd also add the fact that years of the Russian coaches training Americans and helping the U.S. to finally become a power in icedance hasn't helped. While the U.S. got stronger, the cumulative effects of coaches leaving Russia and the Russian Federation being too complacent finally caught up with them.

I haven't seen Sinitsina/Zhiganshin yet and I know that some aren't impressed with I&K but I think they are very talented and have raw talent that needs to be further developed; Elena and Nikita just need to put in the work. Had they done that then I do feel they would have been good enough to compete for medals in Sochi. They have two years to buckle down and get to work but so far I've seen nothing to convince me I&K are ready to turn over a new leaf. I keep willing them to stop resting on that raw talent. I would hate for them to be yet another team who had potential but never went anywhere with it.

I'm really hopeful and excited about what Zhulin will be able to do with B&S.

As an American I should be happy about the current situation in icedance and while I respect all the top teams (I love V&M and P&B) I've missed seeing those great teams that Russia used to crank out much the same way the U.S. produced so many ladies champions.

Russia does seem to be making a comeback in the pairs division and I see the possibility for that trend to continue in icedance. I do think with some hard work that Russia can see one of their teams on the podium in Sochi. Perhaps whoever that team is will "only" win bronze but after the medal drought bronze would be a step forward.

caseyedwards
05-20-2012, 08:32 AM
They can work hard but do they know what to work on? All the teams are terribly incosistent on a technical level. Is it them or the coaches? Do they know a proper way to design lifts and step sequences and spins to consistently get level 3 and 4? Do the skaters have the skills to consistently get 3 and 4? Maybe I/K, B/S and R/T don't have the talent for that and you can't will that talent into existence. Seems like every team has the wrong coach and all the coaches do the wrong programs and are ignorant and the teams don't work hard or work hard for the wrong coaches and programs! LOL!!

Carmen Ovsiannikov
05-20-2012, 09:42 AM
They can work hard but do they know what to work on?

.....Maybe I/K, B/S and R/T don't have the talent for that and you can't will that talent into existence. Seems like every team has the wrong coach and all the coaches do the wrong programs and are ignorant and the teams don't work hard or work hard for the wrong coaches and programs! LOL!!

Well, I don't know about B&S or R&T but my remarks regarding I&K are in reference to comments I've read on FSU that Elena and Nikita have issues with their work ethic or rather lack thereof. As I said, I realize that some (many?) don't see any huge talent in I&K but I do see it. Perhaps even if I&K worked a little bit harder it's possible that they are as good as they are ever going to be but that remains to be seen. If a team doesn't feel the need to put in the practice time then no matter who they go to, the results are not going to come.

These days I'm in and out of the forum so I can't say that I've read any of the posts suggesting that the coaches are giving teams the wrong programs or have no idea what their teams should be working on. I can't comment on that one.

Maofan7
05-20-2012, 02:19 PM
I'm really hopeful and excited about what Zhulin will be able to do with B&S.

Indeed, and there is a new article (http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/05/bobrova-and-soloviev-a-new-beginning/) out today about Bobrova and Soloviev and the coaching change. Zhulin has also taken over as the coach of Monko and Khaliavin as well.


I haven't seen Sinitsina/Zhiganshin yet

Here are Sinitsina & Zhiganshin's performances from the 2011/12 JGPF and 2012 junior worlds, both of which they won:-

JGPF 2011/12

Short Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zocGP8eFq0E)

Free Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96WOkIQTmdA)

Junior Worlds 2012

Short Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlHDnHCEKjY)

Free Dance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HpD5eeofCQ)

Great potential! Here (http://www.goldenskate.com/2011/12/sinitsina-and-zhiganshin-look-to-sochi-and-beyond/) is an article about them from last December

nuge
05-20-2012, 04:17 PM
Can't wait to see this one million dollar look :eek::)
Just the names will be the same :D

Cherub721
05-20-2012, 06:30 PM
Well, I don't know about B&S or R&T but my remarks regarding I&K are in reference to comments I've read on FSU that Elena and Nikita have issues with their work ethic or rather lack thereof.

I defended them their first season in seniors when they left Zhulin. Nikita claimed that they did work hard, but did not get enough supervision because Zhulin was busy with his TV show. Nikita said that he had to go look things up online and watch youtube videos to find the correct way of doing things. It seemed plausible to me and I gave them the benefit of the doubt, but this year they were not outstanding with Morozov so now I'm beginning to believe the rumors about their work ethic were true. They had nominal increases in their placements (1 place at Nats and Euros, 2 places at Worlds) but they again showed up unprepared during the GP and never really got to a great level all season. I also read that they didn't really train for the WTT. Very disappointing. With their talent and relative inexperience, they should be making big leaps. Their lifts are still atrocious.

I don't think Morozov's travelling circus is the right fit for them. Who is the biggest hardass in ice dance? Linichuk? They need a coach who will ban them from going on vacation, take away their cell phones, basically treat them like children. :lol: Their programs need to be immaculate by the Russian test skate, and they should be doing B events to check their levels before the GP (if V&M don't consider themselves too good for that, why should they?).

I believe caseyedwards' point though, was even if these teams are willing to work, do they have coaches that understand how to funnel that work into level 4 elements, key points in the pattern dance, and positive GOE? Out of all the Russian coaches it seems like only the younger more Americanized ones like Shpilband and Krylova seem to do a good job with that.

Maofan7
05-20-2012, 07:24 PM
Can't wait to see this one million dollar look :eek::)
Just the names will be the same :D

They have already started to make changes:-

Photo 1 (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6109/36167402.1c5/0_6b44e_8a3aa0d5_XL.jpg), Photo2 (http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/6109/36167402.1c4/0_6b394_48787729_XL.jpg), Photo Set (http://dolceflute.gallery.ru/watch?a=PG2-imLw)

The photographs are from the Believe charity show held in Moscow on May 1st, that B&S participated in.