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loulou
05-05-2012, 12:17 PM
The problem is that many non-Italians actually think that Italians are like that. They don't understand the Mafia, where it originated, and that 99% of Italians had/have nothing to do with organized crime.

Mafia thrives where they let it, mafia thrives where honest people don't.

If 99% of the country were honest and had nothing to do with organized crime, it would have died long ago (instead, it's been busting, invading all surrounding areas - buying off all profitable activities Greece was left with in the time of need, for example).

Truth is mafia has had a shoulder to lean on in politicians and many different social environments, in a lot of different ways. From construction sites, to restaurants, laundries, universities, banks, firms, hospitals, vote buying, the catholic church, and everything else could come to your mind.

cruisin
05-05-2012, 02:24 PM
Mafia thrives where they let it, mafia thrives where honest people don't.

If 99% of the country were honest and had nothing to do with organized crime, it would have died long ago (instead, it's been busting, invading all surrounding areas - buying off all profitable activities Greece was left with in the time of need, for example).

Truth is mafia has had a shoulder to lean on in politicians and many different social environments, in a lot of different ways. From construction sites, to restaurants, laundries, universities, banks, firms, hospitals, vote buying, the catholic church, and everything else could come to your mind.

I can't speak to corruption in Italy. I can only speak to the fact that Italian Americans are rarely Mafia. Whatever is going on in Italy, now, is not really Mafia, it is political corruption. The Mafia began in Sicily. The reason being that all areas of Italy south of Rome were persecuted. The Mafia started as a form of protection from that persecution. When Italians started immigrating to the US, it was mostly Southern Italians. They left to find a better life. Many, in the Mafia, came here. When they did, they offered "protection". They also offered "job opportunities". But, as Italians assimilated into US society, the need for the Mafia lessened. And, as organized crime broadened, it included many people of different ethnicities. The Mafia is no longer exclusively Italian. The problem is that the media, here, portrays an antiquated image of an Italian Mafia. And suggests that all Italians are corrupt thugs.

I realize that there are very serious problems with corruption in Italy. and those problems need to be addressed. But, Italians are much more than that.

leesaleesa
05-05-2012, 07:40 PM
If governments weren't supposed to care for citizens' health, meth would be in stores. US would have no Food and Drug administration.

This makes no sense. Tanning is legal, and meth is not. The two are not comparable. One is a very destructive substance which causes collateral damage such as burglary to obtain funds for more of the drug, and the violent behaivor the drug can cause, while the other causes no collateral damage unless you are bemoanning all those sunbathers taxing the health system with their melanoma.

If that's the case, let's all stop driving cars, because the accidents that tax the healthcare system, and while we're at it, let's get those people out in the streets to measure fat people's waists because it's for their own good.

cruisin
05-05-2012, 07:52 PM
I can see the scenario going two ways here. The mother did indeed have the child in the tanning booth room to introduce her to tanning. or the mother took the child to the tanning salon and the child said to her classmates "I went tanning with my mom". Either way the little girl was being introduced to the idea that one must tan to be beautiful. And the mother does believe that her tanned appearance does make her beautiful.

I agree, but that is not a crime. Mothers who "need" to be thin may not say anything to their daughters, but the message is there. Mothers who smoke, certainly don't encourage their daughters to smoke, but the message is there. Fathers do things that send wrong messages to their daughters and sons, as well. We can't go around arresting parents because they do things that are unhealthy and their children might think the same behavior is sanctioned by their parents. If the woman actually had the child get into the tanning booth, that is illegal (?). But, I don't believe that is what happened. I do think she brought her to the salon, but that is all.

numbers123
05-06-2012, 12:50 AM
I agree, but that is not a crime. Mothers who "need" to be thin may not say anything to their daughters, but the message is there. Mothers who smoke, certainly don't encourage their daughters to smoke, but the message is there. Fathers do things that send wrong messages to their daughters and sons, as well. We can't go around arresting parents because they do things that are unhealthy and their children might think the same behavior is sanctioned by their parents. If the woman actually had the child get into the tanning booth, that is illegal (?). But, I don't believe that is what happened. I do think she brought her to the salon, but that is all.

I don't believe I said it was a crime to expose the child to the mother's standard of beauty. I said that the mother's perception of what is beautiful is what the child is exposed to. If she did take the child into the tanning booth, that is a crime. I don't know whether she did or not.

essence_of_soy
05-06-2012, 02:54 AM
Sweet Fancy Moses, that woman looks like an Oscar Meyer sausage.

cruisin
05-06-2012, 03:07 AM
I don't believe I said it was a crime to expose the child to the mother's standard of beauty. I said that the mother's perception of what is beautiful is what the child is exposed to. If she did take the child into the tanning booth, that is a crime. I don't know whether she did or not.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you did say it was a crime to expose the child to the mother's standards. I was, essentially agreeing with you. Just stating the obvious.

heckles
05-07-2012, 04:59 PM
Per GMA this morning, the employees at the tanning salon confirm that the child did NOT go into the tanning booth, but that she was just waiting in the lobby while her mom tanned.

Not buying it. Sounds to me that the salon is trying to cover its own leathery butt.

cruisin
05-07-2012, 05:05 PM
^^ Why? The mother said from day one, that she had the child at the salon, but that she did not let her tan. There has been absolutely no support to any accusation that the child did tan. The child said she went tanning with mommy. That certainly does not mean the child went into the booth or on the bed. In stand up booths they have a changing area and the tanning area, they are separated by a door. Even if the child went into the booth, it does not mean that she was in the tanning part. Would it have been smarter to have not brought the child? Probably, but I do not believe the mother is lying about the kid. I think the mother has problems, she is body dysmorphic. But, that still doesn't mean she let her child tan.

heckles
05-07-2012, 05:19 PM
The kid a) had a sunburn, and b) said that was how she got the sunburn.

Why exactly would a kid be motivated to lie about that?

cruisin
05-07-2012, 05:33 PM
The kid a) had a sunburn, and b) said that was how she got the sunburn.

Why exactly would a kid be motivated to lie about that?

The kid never said that. The kid was asked what she did on a specific day. She said she went tanning with mommy. As it happened she was out playing (either that day or the next day) and she got a little coloring from the sun. The teacher assumed that the child was "tanning". The child never said that was how she got sunburned.

milanessa
05-07-2012, 05:44 PM
You must not have children, heckles.

cruisin
05-07-2012, 05:49 PM
You must not have children, heckles.

:lol: If people took many of the things our kids said literally, we'd all be in trouble.

FigureSpins
05-07-2012, 05:51 PM
^^ Why? The mother said from day one, that she had the child at the salon, but that she did not let her tan..

I agree that the kid most likely wasn't in the actual tanning booth, but the original article has several statements that indicate that the girl was in the room surrounding the tanning booth.


The kid never said that. The kid was asked what she did on a specific day. She said she went tanning with mommy. As it happened she was out playing (either that day or the next day) and she got a little coloring from the sun. The teacher assumed that the child was "tanning". The child never said that was how she got sunburned.
Kids' statements are often wacky and off-target, so yeah, I could see the kid lying out in the backyard on a towel and getting sunburned, then saying that went tanning with mommy, who was probably doing the same thing.


"I tan, she doesn't tan," Krentcil said. "I'm in the booth, she's in the room. That's all there is to it."
<snip>
"It's like taking your daughter to go food shopping," Krentcil said. "There's tons of moms that bring their children in."


Police, though, say Krentcil put her daughter in an upright tanning booth.
New Jersey state law prohibits children under the age of 14 from tanning booths. Children between the ages of 14 and 17 must be accompanied by an adult.

I asked some friends who frequent fake-and-bake tanning salons and they said that the salons in NJ have signs stating that kids are not allowed in the rooms or the tanning booths/beds. To wait in the waiting area, they have to be attended by an adult.

I think the salon either didn't have that rule or was lax in enforcing it, given the mother's "but everyone does it" defense. She basically said that the salon was letting patrons take their kids into the room while they tanned in the booth.

To cover both the mom and the salon's butts, suddenly the husband was in the waiting area with two kids, which was never stated until after they lawyered up.

I think there's a lot of lying going on, but I don't think the kid was actually in the tanning booth other than to take a peek while she waited for Mommy to get her tanning fix. I'll bet the salon has shiny new laminated signs and policies in effect this week.

heckles
05-07-2012, 06:01 PM
As it happened she was out playing (either that day or the next day) and she got a little coloring from the sun.

Since when are second-degree burns "a little coloring"? Yes, children can lie, and adults like to use that as a cop-out. There are plenty of reasons for the mother and salon to lie in this case. What reason did the kid have to lie?