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View Full Version : Yuzuru Hanyu to be coached by Brian Orser



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arakwafan2006
04-28-2012, 04:39 PM
I have heard that Brian puts on seminars for young skaters and also has many young skaters that he works with. One of my friends who coaches at the same rink said Brian took on a young skater who didn't even have double jumps two years ago, and she is now training triple axels. I don't know many coaches who in two years can take someone thru their doubles, triples and to a jump that many females would never even try let alone do. Are you all sure you know what you are talking about? :confused:

I am so glad you wrote this!

When i read about people saying that about him i just shake my head... good at teaching quads and triples but not basic jumps... rediculous. Furthermore, the implication is that Hanyu just blindly chose Brian without knowing what strengths Brian has that would enhance Hanyu. Brian is not a good coach just because he's an olympic medalist. The guy is good.

Sylvia
04-28-2012, 10:39 PM
I'm sorry but this is extremely hard to believe. So unless any proof can be provided...

Not sure how that would be possible, since it was something I heard. Not really sure if it is true or not. If it is a young unknown skater there may be no proof. Time will tell, might just have to wait and see.
"Proof" can only be provided if and when a young unknown skater shows what he or she can do in competition. So yes, only time will tell.

ProgramerUSFS
04-28-2012, 10:44 PM
"Proof" can only be provided if and when a young unknown skater shows what he or she can do in competition. So yes, only time will tell.

Could agree more. Well said. :)

BittyBug
04-28-2012, 11:25 PM
That's it, programer. Brian knows how to train skaters to be champions. Does he? He was successful with Kim Yuna, but she was such a talent she very well may have become a champion regardless of her coach. And that's one skater, not skaters.


And, how to deal with disappointment, too. He's been up and down and seen it all. If anyone can teach elite skaters how to cope it is Brian O.It's one thing to experience something oneself, and it's quite another to impart any lessons learned on someone else. And for me at least, Orser's reactions and attitude in the K&C when his students don't do well don't exactly inspire confidence that he has learned to deal with disappointment. JMO.

jl22aries
04-28-2012, 11:48 PM
PJ Kwong interviewed Brian around the time of Worlds and it gave wonderful insight into his coaching philosophy and shone a little light on the man himself. I know these segments are short and processed to sell, so how much can you really glean about the reality of his training technique, but I have to say in those short minutes I was really impressed by his warm but firm approach and, well gee golly I'll say it, if I were a skater in need of a coach, I'd be drawn towards him.

Katarzyna
04-29-2012, 01:45 AM
I think Hanyu has his own smooth style somewhat similar to Johnny's graceful way of flowing over the ice -- but I don't see Hanyu's style of movement drastically changing. Hopefully, Hanyu will be able to develop more endurance and maturity, and also learn how to get up quickly and continue skating after a fall, w/o pausing so long and hanging his head.
Well, I think Hanyu's stamnia problems more likely can be attributed to him suffering asthma than to coaching situation / practice condition he has in Japan. I remember an interview where he stated that due to this he can't practice longer than 2 hours. - Fixing this problem might be even more difficult abroad than back home in Japan (at least it will cost more :bribe: to get proper health care in Canada).

Beside from that I fear that it's a bit too early for Hanyu to make such a big move. I'd rather wanted him to make such a change in one or let's say two years. He is only 17 and will now live in a foreign country with a complete different mentality. I wonder if he'll be able to handel it, though I hope he will prove my concerns being wrong. :shuffle:

ProgramerUSFS
04-29-2012, 02:26 PM
Does he? He was successful with Kim Yuna, but she was such a talent she very well may have become a champion regardless of her coach. And that's one skater, not skaters.

It's one thing to experience something oneself, and it's quite another to impart any lessons learned on someone else. And for me at least, Orser's reactions and attitude in the K&C when his students don't do well don't exactly inspire confidence that he has learned to deal with disappointment. JMO.

I think you forget that Yuna came to him when she was only 15 years old, and he worked with her for many years before she became what you saw in the Olympics. In 2005 jr worlds she did a triple toe triple toe, and had issues with other triples as her score was very low, and she was a long way to doing a triple triple combo with a lutz. So I would say that the outcome of Yuna is five years of work by Orser and his team. Have any other skaters dedicated five years to the effort of his training other then Yuna?

Other coaches had skaters who had similar jumps to Yuna in 2005, where were they in 2010 and why didn't they do the same with their skaters?

seabm7
04-29-2012, 02:38 PM
So I would say that the outcome of Yuna is five years of work by Orser and his team. Have any other skaters dedicated five years to the effort of his training other then Yuna?


Well, I remember the history slightly differently. IIRC, they started work together on a temporary basis during 2006-2007 season, then Orser decided to work with Yuna long-term after 2007 World.

Concerning 3Lz-3T, it was not the original plan. They changed the combination from 3F-3T to 3Lz-3T because she got an edge call on her flip. Otherwise, they may have kept 3F-3T for the olympic season.

lakewood
04-29-2012, 02:44 PM
I think you forget that Yuna came to him when she was only 15 years old, and he worked with her for many years before she became what you saw in the Olympics. In 2005 jr worlds she did a triple toe triple toe, and had issues with other triples as her score was very low, and she was a long way to doing a triple triple combo with a lutz. So I would say that the outcome of Yuna is five years of work by Orser and his team. Have any other skaters dedicated five years to the effort of his training other then Yuna?

Other coaches had skaters who had similar jumps to Yuna in 2005, where were they in 2010 and why didn't they do the same with their skaters?

Just to correct. YuNa met Brian for the first time in 2006 summer after she won 2006 Jr. Worlds, where she showed 3f-3t. Brian became her coach on Feb. 2007 a month before 2007 Worlds.

bek
04-29-2012, 03:10 PM
I think you forget that Yuna came to him when she was only 15 years old, and he worked with her for many years before she became what you saw in the Olympics. In 2005 jr worlds she did a triple toe triple toe, and had issues with other triples as her score was very low, and she was a long way to doing a triple triple combo with a lutz. So I would say that the outcome of Yuna is five years of work by Orser and his team. Have any other skaters dedicated five years to the effort of his training other then Yuna?

Other coaches had skaters who had similar jumps to Yuna in 2005, where were they in 2010 and why didn't they do the same with their skaters?

Programmer I do think people are being wrong about Orser, but you right now are being incredibly unfair to Kim and her previous coaches. Kim had incredible jumps before she ever stepped foot on Orser's door. First of all, Kim's score at Junior Worlds was not low. She had a bad short program because she fell on her triple loop. A jump Orser was never able to fix. In fact she landed it more as a Junior. She landed 6 gorgeous triples in her long program..She scored about 110.26 on her free skate which is a huge score back than from a junior. She was about almost 14 points higher in the free than the person who took bronze. Took second to Asada, who did an incredible jumping feat.

Second as for the triple lutz/triple toe. Yu-na actually landed that combination in competition before she went to Orser. Here's the evidence. http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpbul2005/jgpbul05_Ladies_FS_scores.pdf

So she was doing that and the 3flip/3toe before Orser. Its just the why the scoring system works it didn't make sense for her to do the 3lutz/3toe a harder combo over the 3flip/3toe because it turned out to be the same base value in the end. She added it when she got ! on her flip.

I think Orser did an amazing job with Kim, but Kim had incredible jumps before she went to him.

Orser did help her with the flip though and other than the double axel, Gao now has a 3flip/3toe under him.

Sylvia
04-29-2012, 03:12 PM
Is there any new information about Hanyu's coaching change in the Japanese media?

ProgramerUSFS
04-29-2012, 03:22 PM
Programmer I do think people are being wrong about Orser, but you right now are being incredibly unfair to Kim and her previous coaches. Kim had incredible jumps before she ever stepped foot on Orser's door. First of all, Kim's score at Junior Worlds was not low. She had a bad short program because she fell on her triple loop. A jump Orser was never able to fix. In fact she landed it more as a Junior. She landed 6 gorgeous triples in her long program..She scored about 110.26 on her free skate which is a huge score back than from a junior. She was about almost 14 points higher in the free than the person who took bronze. Took second to Asada, who did an incredible jumping feat.

Second as for the triple lutz/triple toe. Yu-na actually landed that combination in competition before she went to Orser. Here's the evidence. http://www.isuresults.com/results/jgpbul2005/jgpbul05_Ladies_FS_scores.pdf

So she was doing that and the 3flip/3toe before Orser. Its just the why the scoring system works it didn't make sense for her to do the 3lutz/3toe a harder combo over the 3flip/3toe because it turned out to be the same base value in the end. She added it when she got ! on her flip.

I think Orser did an amazing job with Kim, but Kim had incredible jumps before she went to him.

Orser did help her with the flip though and other than the double axel, Gao now has a 3flip/3toe under him.

I had saw an article that she began with him at 15 years old. That would put them together during the 2005 jr worlds. This isn't true then, as I really don't know the history?

bek
04-29-2012, 03:46 PM
I had saw an article that she began with him at 15 years old. That would put them together during the 2005 jr worlds. This isn't true then, as I really don't know the history?

Kim was 14 at 2005 Jr Worlds, if she had been 15 she could have competed at the Olympics the next year. Her and Asada both had the misfortune of Sept birthdays. Story has always been she went to train at the Cricket Club in the summer of 2006 after she won Jr Worlds in 2006. It was the Korean coaches who were in the Kiss and Cry with her as a Junior, and even in the beginning of her Senior year... Orser did an amazing job with her but credit for those jumps really should go to those who worked with her before. He gets credit for helping her maintain it and improving the other aspects which is no small feat.




Beside from that I fear that it's a bit too early for Hanyu to make such a big move. I'd rather wanted him to make such a change in one or let's say two years. He is only 17 and will now live in a foreign country with a complete different mentality. I wonder if he'll be able to handel it, though I hope he will prove my concerns being wrong. :shuffle:

Well he's not moving to Canada right away full time because he's still in school so that should give him time to adjust. As for doing it right now, it makes sense to do it right now. The Olympics are two years away, it gives him time to adj to training overseas and a new coach before the Olympic year.

Hanyu is already an Olympic medal contendor and could very well have a serious shot at the OGM. If I'm the Japanese fed I have a feeling he may have a better shot than Dai because he's far more likely to challenge Chan technically. Yes Hanyu is young, but there are no guarantees that in 2018 he'll be healthy or a top contender. Remember everyone saying Tara could win in Salt Lake? You get a shot at an OGM/Olympic medal you take that shot and run with it because there's no guarantees that shot will be there again....

Hanyu strikes me as someone who wants to be a champion and has a lot of drive, so I think he'll be okay. The first year he won't be exclusively in Canada which may help ease him into that transition too. By the next year, he'll be at the same age as many kids who go to college.

Sylvia supposedly Hanyu is going to do press conference in a couple of days.

Zemgirl
04-29-2012, 05:00 PM
Kim was 14 at 2005 Jr Worlds, if she had been 15 she could have competed at the Olympics the next year. Her and Asada both had the misfortune of Sept birthdays. Story has always been she went to train at the Cricket Club in the summer of 2006 after she won Jr Worlds in 2006. It was the Korean coaches who were in the Kiss and Cry with her as a Junior, and even in the beginning of her Senior year... Orser did an amazing job with her but credit for those jumps really should go to those who worked with her before. He gets credit for helping her maintain it and improving the other aspects which is no small feat.
That seems right - Kim went to Toronto in the summer of 2006, shortly before she turned 16, and relocated full-time a few months later (source (http://web.archive.org/web/20100116023013/http://www.ifsmagazine.com/archive/2007/DECEMBER/INDEX.PHP)). Obviously Orser got a very accomplished skater to begin with; what I think he deserves a lot of credit for is helping her become a more polished and mature performer (though Wilson also played a major role) and maybe most importantly, getting her through the Olympic season, when the pressure on her must have been insane.

How much of this would be applicable in Hanyu's case, I'm not sure.

briancoogaert
04-29-2012, 05:02 PM
I can't wait to see it !