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View Full Version : Yuzuru Hanyu to be coached by Brian Orser



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Rock2
04-26-2012, 07:04 PM
Maybe he's overly masterful cause Cynthia Phaneuf's jumps are not looking too great these days. Perhaps his masterfullness is so off the charts that other skaters cant really comprehend?

Cynthia's jumping technique and basic skating is already excellent. (except for the flip). Her problem is in her head and there's no guarantee that he or anyone can fix that. Head cases are really hard to turn around, especially late in their careers.

Someone complained earlier about Orser's inability to fix Rippon's 3A. Keep in mind we only know parts of the story so be careful about the conclusions you draw. Rumor had it that Rippon didn't follow Orser's plan to improve his jumps which included more off ice work. It takes two -- both teacher and student -- to create success.

In general though I love all the moves. To me this is a big picture signal that skaters are really game to develop and grow. As a result they take all they can from a coach and then when they sense a plateau of any kind they search for additional instruction from others. Risky to do, but can lead to a faster trajectory of growth for the skaters. Love it!

bek
04-26-2012, 07:51 PM
Yuna Kim wasn't a convincing job of coaching? :eek:

I know... Orser hasn't shown YET that he can be a Mishin/Carroll and develop a skater from the ground up, but it takes years to develop a skater like that.. And so give him time. But he has shown that he can take a skater with the technical skills, improve their skating in all aspects, and also manage their injuries/make sure they peak at the right time. Which is good for Hanyu.

There were a lot of coaches not just Orser that couldn't help Rippon with that triple axel, and I actually think Gao improved a lot under Orser from what I can see. There are tons of reports that Fernandez does not have the greatest work ethic, which ISN'T Orser's fault.

With Hanyu Orser may have his male version of Kim talent wise, heck Hanyu may even be more talented, and so far it seems to me given how much he's improved that the work ethic is there.

nubka
04-26-2012, 08:12 PM
He may NOT though if he does not have a lot of beginner skaters. Tarasova used to coach multiple singles skaters and dance teams at the same time. Igor and Marina do it... Lets not presume to know it all...

Yes, mammy! :rollin:

jjane45
04-26-2012, 10:20 PM
Thanks.

So that means that he trains on his own while in Japan? (sorry to be dense if that has been said already :o ) This really worries me.

Worried too. Why does it sound like Mao's arrangement with Tat?

carriemarie
04-27-2012, 01:41 AM
I had to smile at you young'uns who weren't around when every promising/almost champion skater 'had' to go to Carlo Fassi to finally reach the pinnacle. :rolleyes:

Oh, how I wish I could say I was that young or that I didn't take from the late Carlo Fassi, so yeah.......:shuffle:

triple_toe
04-27-2012, 01:47 AM
I think Brian isn't necessarily good at teaching jumps or basics, but is very good at taking skaters who already have the technical goods and packaging them and peaking them well for competitions. I think he can turn already good skaters into champions but isn't a "from the ground up" coach. That in no way means he's a bad coach; one is just as difficult as the other IMO. Simply he's more suited to skaters that are already elite.

Marco
04-27-2012, 04:38 AM
I think Brian isn't necessarily good at teaching jumps or basics, but is very good at taking skaters who already have the technical goods and packaging them and peaking them well for competitions. I think he can turn already good skaters into champions but isn't a "from the ground up" coach. That in no way means he's a bad coach; one is just as difficult as the other IMO. Simply he's more suited to skaters that are already elite.

Agreed, which is why I think Orser - Gao is not the best match.

He seems to be better at camouflaging weaknesses than fixing them. Most of his other students can skate clean with a beautiful package and medal, but not Gao.

Orser - Hanyu can be a good match because Hanyu already has most of what it takes to be the next best thing. But he is going to be facing a bitch of a commute. I hope he is disciplined enough to train on his own while in Japan. (or is his old coach going to look after him still while he is in Japan?) When does he finish highschool? Perhaps he can train full time in Canada after he finishes highschool?

ProgramerUSFS
04-27-2012, 05:09 AM
I think Brian isn't necessarily good at teaching jumps or basics, but is very good at taking skaters who already have the technical goods and packaging them and peaking them well for competitions. I think he can turn already good skaters into champions but isn't a "from the ground up" coach. That in no way means he's a bad coach; one is just as difficult as the other IMO. Simply he's more suited to skaters that are already elite.

I have heard that Brian puts on seminars for young skaters and also has many young skaters that he works with. One of my friends who coaches at the same rink said Brian took on a young skater who didn't even have double jumps two years ago, and she is now training triple axels. I don't know many coaches who in two years can take someone thru their doubles, triples and to a jump that many females would never even try let alone do. Are you all sure you know what you are talking about? :confused:

bek
04-27-2012, 05:35 AM
Agreed, which is why I think Orser - Gao is not the best match.

He seems to be better at camouflaging weaknesses than fixing them. Most of his other students can skate clean with a beautiful package and medal, but not Gao.

Orser - Hanyu can be a good match because Hanyu already has most of what it takes to be the next best thing. But he is going to be facing a bitch of a commute. I hope he is disciplined enough to train on his own while in Japan. (or is his old coach going to look after him still while he is in Japan?) When does he finish highschool? Perhaps he can train full time in Canada after he finishes highschool?

I'm thinking too that he may switch to Orser full time once high school is up but this gives him an opportunity to try him out now before the Olympic Season.

As for Orser not being a ground up coach..I don't know how anyone can say he can't develop young talent. Orser has just started talent, and developing a young Hanyu/ Plushenko /Kim takes years and years. And there's also the issue of finding that talent.

ChibiChibi
04-27-2012, 06:01 AM
Yuzuru just started his senior year in high school in April, and will graduate from high school in March, 2013.

Ziggy
04-27-2012, 11:29 PM
One of my friends who coaches at the same rink said Brian took on a young skater who didn't even have double jumps two years ago, and she is now training triple axels. I don't know many coaches who in two years can take someone thru their doubles, triples and to a jump that many females would never even try let alone do. Are you all sure you know what you are talking about? :confused:

I'm sorry but this is extremely hard to believe. So unless any proof can be provided...

ProgramerUSFS
04-28-2012, 03:52 AM
I'm sorry but this is extremely hard to believe. So unless any proof can be provided...

Not sure how that would be possible, since it was something I heard. Not really sure if it is true or not. If it is a young unknown skater there may be no proof. Time will tell, might just have to wait and see.

Zemgirl
04-28-2012, 06:31 AM
Not sure how that would be possible, since it was something I heard. Not really sure if it is true or not. If it is a young unknown skater there may be no proof. Time will tell, might just have to wait and see.
If this skater has all her triples and is training a 3A, I think we would have heard something about her by now.

Like Ziggy, I find this hard to believe. I can certainly believe that a young skater enjoyed some improvement under his guidance, maybe even major improvement. But if Orser can take someone from no doubles to all her triples in less than two years, why couldn't he help his higher profile skaters more with their jumps?

But this is besides the point, because Hanyu doesn't need help major help with his jumps. I'm not sure what exactly Orser is supposed to accomplish that Hanyu can't get while training in Japan, but maybe I'll be proven wrong.

ProgramerUSFS
04-28-2012, 01:42 PM
If this skater has all her triples and is training a 3A, I think we would have heard something about her by now.

Like Ziggy, I find this hard to believe. I can certainly believe that a young skater enjoyed some improvement under his guidance, maybe even major improvement. But if Orser can take someone from no doubles to all her triples in less than two years, why couldn't he help his higher profile skaters more with their jumps?

But this is besides the point, because Hanyu doesn't need help major help with his jumps. I'm not sure what exactly Orser is supposed to accomplish that Hanyu can't get while training in Japan, but maybe I'll be proven wrong.

To answer your question then, I think Hanyu or anyone would come to Orser as a coach for his experience and guidance in developing someone to the podium worlds or the Olympics. Orser has gotten himself to two Olympic medals and multiple world medals. To me a great coach is way beyond teaching elements, which don't get me wrong, are important. However, if you can't get your skaters mind to the point of competing and winning in the big events, it really doesn't matter how great you teach jumps. I am sure that their are some great coaches who teach jumps, but don't know what to do when the big day comes. All I can say is that Orser got himself to many major events and won them, and then he managed one skater to an Olympic gold and world titles. So I think that Hanyu is coming to him to gain the experience of how to prepare, to plan, and get your training and mind around being the champion before you actually compete. That is what I think Orser offers over most other coaches.

Now concerning this young skater who is training larger jumps with Orser. You all said that Orser can't bring someone from a lower level skater to larger jumps. And I simply told you that I heard that this isn't so, and in fact this girl had come a long way very fast under Orser, therefore you must be wrong about his teaching. I was told that their was a story on the internet about her, but I haven't been able to find it. So sorry.

JasperBoy
04-28-2012, 04:37 PM
That's it, programer. Brian knows how to train skaters to be champions. And, how to deal with disappointment, too. He's been up and down and seen it all. If anyone can teach elite skaters how to cope it is Brian O.