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shah
04-26-2012, 12:16 AM
But the good news is maybe we'll get less WeirImitation.

I prefer WeirImitation to MiniOrserClone :P.

a really shocking and unexpected coach switch which leaves me somewhat speechless. and unhappy :/...

Gil-Galad
04-26-2012, 12:27 AM
That is rather judgemental.

Most skaters will never have consistent quads.

You can't always blame the coach.
------------------------------

Fernandez was very inconsistent this season. A quad alone is not enough if you mess other stuff up.

Kozuka always looks so hesitant going into his Quads, I am amazed that he manages to land some at all.

And I don't think Fernandez had a bad season. I think he kind of spooked himself. He gets a new coach and - voilą - after a few months with the coach he suddenly skates fantastic programs and is considered the favourite going into Euros.

I like Orser for Hanyu.

os168
04-26-2012, 12:33 AM
It must be me - this argument doesn't appear to work for the sport or the business model. Definitely each to his own point of view though.

I think headhunting is the more valid model here because unlike talent agencies, these are not open casting hires. What is likely to happen is the headhunter would artificially create a need, and fill it with their sources/contacts, or vice versa. We speculate unavailable people and non existing positions out all the time, just to 'sound' people out, get a feel for the potentials.

It might not work 1st time, but by 3rd or 4th meeting, an opportunity is likely to come up (not publicly disclosed therefore a level of exclusivity). In sport I wonder how much of it is really down to the management's decision, the athlete's need, or it is really the agent who create the demand.

In anycase, I thought I'd just weigh in a possible scenario in case anyone is interested, otherwise just call me another crazy fan who's trying to make sense of all this.

aftershocks
04-26-2012, 01:01 AM
I had to smile at you young'uns who weren't around when every promising/almost champion skater 'had' to go to Carlo Fassi to finally reach the pinnacle. :rolleyes:

:lol: In Toller Cranston's book, "Zero Tollerance," Toller discusses how he turned down Fassi's overtures to become his coach. Fassi then successfully recruited John Curry ... the rest is history. Fascinatingly, Curry was obviously inspired by Cranston's unique style of skating. In 1976, Curry who hadn't previously had a great deal of success, won the Olympic and World gold medals.


The rationale was that Fassi could speak many languages and could lobby most of the judges in their own languages and eavesdrop on the rest, something considered extremely important when figures could make or break a skater.
...

Interesting rationale ... Definitely Fassi was a political mover and shaker.


But the good news is maybe we'll get less WeirImitation.

:confused: I think Hanyu has his own smooth style somewhat similar to Johnny's graceful way of flowing over the ice -- but I don't see Hanyu's style of movement drastically changing. Hopefully, Hanyu will be able to develop more endurance and maturity, and also learn how to get up quickly and continue skating after a fall, w/o pausing so long and hanging his head.

IMO, Hanyu is not a Johnny clone. Neither does Hanyu "imitate" Johnny. OTOH, Hanyu has been wearing costumes designed by Johnny, and Hanyu admittedly admires Johnny's skating. Do you think that will change?
___________________________________

I am surprised that Hanyu will be moving to Canada to work with Orser, however as others have mentioned, it is not unusual for Japanese skaters to move abroad for training. Perhaps this move will work in the favor of all concerned, including Javier. The new season already seems set for a number of fireworks in all disciplines. :watch:

arakwafan2006
04-26-2012, 01:11 AM
i just wish i could believe that training with orser is going to improve both yuzuru and kanako murakami's posture, if indeed he is JSF's coach of choice for japan's next generation.

huh? Kanako? Did i miss something?

skfan
04-26-2012, 01:16 AM
huh? Kanako? Did i miss something?


somewhere, maybe here or GS or mao forum, i read that JSF has been wanting to send kanako and yuzuru to a foreign coach, that JSF may have plans to have orser take the role morozov once held.

BUT more importantly, whose posture has brian orser fixed? me wants to know! :lol:

ks1227
04-26-2012, 01:27 AM
Yuna Kim wasn't a convincing job of coaching? :eek:
That's exactly what I've been wondering while reading this thread. :shuffle:



Fernandez was very inconsistent this season. A quad alone is not enough if you mess other stuff up.
Very true, but he certainly improved when he left Morozov and went to Orser.

My more general response: This is a surprising decision, but I think we'll just have to wait and see how it works out. Hanyu has a lot of raw talent and promise. But the kid is still quite young and often still looks it IMO. Maybe the coach who helps you break onto the scene isn't always the best coach to help you mature.

aftershocks
04-26-2012, 01:31 AM
:lol: at the photos and headline on IceNetwork with article link on this news!

I also am :rofl: at the image of Orser skating (acting out the program) on the sidelines while watching Hanyu :lol:. Hanyu's former coach always seemed ready to throw up before Hanyu skated and afterward too whenever Hanyu made mistakes.

carriemarie
04-26-2012, 04:32 AM
He will be attending school in Japan and traveling to train with Orser "frequently"??

And Mariah thought she had a bad commute!

This schedule seems a recipe for disaster-

kimkom
04-26-2012, 04:55 AM
Most important of all, will Brian let him bring his bear to the boards? :drama:

NMURA
04-26-2012, 05:02 AM
Fernandez was very inconsistent this season. A quad alone is not enough if you mess other stuff up.

I'm talking about quad jumps. Fernandez's only "mistake" was the 4S in worlds FS (-1.6GOE). That's one out of 16 attempts. Really amazing! He can "learn" 3A techniques from Hanyu. Hanyu never missed the 3A in this season (21 attempts) and only once in the last season (Japanese nationals FS). In fact, Hanyu's 3A earns more points than Chan's 4T on average.

Many men lose consistency in the 3A when they practice quads, yet Hanyu seems to be the clear exception. That's something reminds me of Plushenko. Gachinski's 3A is very stable, but his 4T is nowhere close to it. Orser can be proud of his new student. Hanyu has already declared to include the 4S. Fernandez can be a lot of help.

NMURA
04-26-2012, 06:18 AM
FYR, I made comparisons of Hanyu and Chan's 4T/3A at 2011-2012 international competitions (in cases of combinations, values of 2T or 3T were extracted, -1 deductions applied when fell on 3A or 4T)

Hanyu
4T 10 attempts 4 +GOE average 9.47 points
3A 15 attempts 14 +GOE (fell on 3A-3T at CoC) average 10.01 points

Chan
4T 20 attempts 9 +GOE average 9.33 points
3A 13 attempts 7 +GOE average 7.51 points

and Fernandez's 4T/4S
15 attempts 11 +GOE average 11.42 points

If Hanyu could obtain Fernandez's quad consistency, he could be quite unbeatable. Chan won't be able to get away with 3-4 falls and still win anymore (save Skate Canada).

Zemgirl
04-26-2012, 07:18 AM
Fernandez was very inconsistent this season. A quad alone is not enough if you mess other stuff up.

Very true, but he certainly improved when he left Morozov and went to Orser.

The main improvement was that he finally had good programs, and that's because he went from Morozov to Wilson/Buttle. Fernandez already had the jumps and was quite a good skater; he just needed his PCS to catch up. I don't think he was inconsistent, more like he had an Oda-type season with a really strong GP that got everyone's expectations up, then basically nothing. I can't even call it peaking at the wrong time, because Fernandez needed that strong GP to even be considered a contender. Maybe next year they'll manage it better.

Orser certainly did a very good job with Yu-Na Kim, but again some of the credit should go to David Wilson. And Kim did have some weaknesses that Orser wasn't able to fix. He strikes me as being really good at instilling confidence and helping skaters with the mental side of their preparation, which is obviously very important - but he's not a magician.

As for Hanyu, I just don't see what Orser can give him that he doesn't already have. Unless he can figure out a way to work around Yuzuru's asthma and improve his stamina.

EricRohmer
04-26-2012, 08:52 AM
Some Yuna fans were Not surprised by this news.
Two years ago, they did even predict exactly that Orser is going to coach Hanyu(or Murakami, Shoji) if he doesn't get Mao. lol. ;)
Orser's unfinished job with JSF in 2010 was done now finally. End of story.

walei
04-26-2012, 09:00 AM
If Hanyu could obtain Fernandez's quad consistency, he could be quite unbeatable. Chan won't be able to get away with 3-4 falls and still win anymore (save Skate Canada).

How are people still making this kind of comments after WTT?