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View Full Version : Yuzuru Hanyu to be coached by Brian Orser



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arakwafan2006
04-25-2012, 09:13 PM
I think Orser is one of the best technical (jump) coach in the world. What Hanyu needs (wants) now is technical arsenals to overwhelm Chan (and Plushenko). Pretty apparent the JSF is behind this move. The JSF may want to "hire" Orser as the coach for Japanese elite skaters like Morozov before. Probably Asada is the one most needed for Orser's help. Nobuo Sato is incompetent when it comes to teaching jumps. Kozuka still can't (most likely, never will) master the quad after four full season's struggles.

Maybe he's overly masterful cause Cynthia Phaneuf's jumps are not looking too great these days. Perhaps his masterfullness is so off the charts that other skaters cant really comprehend?

The Accordion
04-25-2012, 09:16 PM
Awww.I hope this works out because I love them both.

Triple Butz
04-25-2012, 09:19 PM
I think this is good. And really hope Brian pays attention to his posture. I am ready to be a fan but I just can't take the hunched back. :drama: Dick Button would understand.

I agree. This coaching change could be a really good thing. Hanyu is a tremendous talent, but still has some very juniorish habits that hopefully Orser can take care of, starting with how to bounce back into character after a fall.

jenny12
04-25-2012, 09:58 PM
I agree. This coaching change could be a really good thing. Hanyu is a tremendous talent, but still has some very juniorish habits that hopefully Orser can take care of, starting with how to bounce back into character after a fall.

I agree. I really enjoy Hanyu and think he obviously had loads of potential, but he definitely needs some refining. I think Orser will really help with this.

jl22aries
04-25-2012, 10:34 PM
This will be a super interesting off season! For me, Hanyu has a very Russian aesthetic about his skating, and the Orser base couldn't be more the antithesis. Still, Hanyu looks like he could be incredibly versatile so I'm really looking forward to his new programs for next year.

Also, the NA training program is known for full program run throughs. Will that help Hanyu with his stamina issues? But his asthma...hmm.

I'm sure his off ice regimen will change as well, and perhaps help him get more core body strength and more muscle mass. For me, this is one major area that could be improved, as well as his posture. And then sky's the limit.

Also, any news on his ankle injury? He just looks so fragile. Here's to strength training Yuzuru!

eurodance2001
04-25-2012, 10:37 PM
I just hope this North American "experiment" doesn't turn into Miki Ando's "lost" year when she trained with Carol Heiss-Jenkins..

Nune
04-25-2012, 10:43 PM
Wow, this move is really a surprising one !!! Love and loved Yuzuru together with his previous coach.
I like Brian O., but up to now he didn't really convince me as a coach.

I just hope, that this change works for this fabulous skater !!!

IceAlisa
04-25-2012, 10:45 PM
Yuna Kim wasn't a convincing job of coaching? :eek:

skfan
04-25-2012, 10:53 PM
has brian orser notably fixed any skater's posture? i'm asking because i don't know, not trying to be contentious.

YNK's toe point wasn't fixed, and her jumps already had excellent technique before she arrived. christina gao still hunches her back 3 years into orser's tutelage.

certainly orser deserves credit for preparing YNK for vancouver olympics, helping her to give her best performances there. but i still see imperfection in elene G's posture, even though her jumps are now more consistent with him.

i'm not singling brian orser out--i just think in this era skaters AND their coaches have little incentive to improve basic skills like posture. yuzuru is clearly a star on the rise. i just wish i could believe that training with orser is going to improve both yuzuru and kanako murakami's posture, if indeed he is JSF's coach of choice for japan's next generation.

NMURA
04-25-2012, 10:58 PM
IMO, Orser does not seem to be a strong technical coach.
(Look at Kim‘s 3Lo, Rippon‘s 3A, Gao‘s 2A&3fLz, Javier‘s jumps except Quad&3A. ;))

Fernandez's consistency and quality of quad jumps are outstanding. I think THAT is one important reason. Even if Orser can't be given the full credits, there are merits to train with the best quad jumper in the world.


I just hope this North American "experiment" doesn't turn into Miki Ando's "lost" year when she trained with Carol Heiss-Jenkins..

Ando's turn to NA was in the Torino Olympic season, wasn't it? Hanyu has two more years for Sochi.

os168
04-25-2012, 11:36 PM
Given what I know about how sport agency works, what happened 2 years ago during the Orser/Kim break up and IMG's role made alot of sense now, since I used to be a head hunter myself that strategize and plan headhunting ahead of time in another industry. Each deals can take between 3-18 months to materialize subject to the contract in place already, the big deals can takes up to 2 years. I am not saying this is what happened, but it very well might according to my experience.

Who ever broke this deal, I hope you enjoy your 20%-30%. In big moves like this where there hadn't been an expectations, it is hardly ever about the athletes and their true benefits. The only ones profit from brokering these deals are the sporting agencies and indirectly their placements. If it doesn't work out, great... just move! Another 20% to who ever suddenly is more suitable, and a spot suddenly becomes available where you can fill another one of your candidate in.

Where there are no supplies, create one. Where there are no demand, create one!

Be friends with your clients and candidates and make it like you are doing them a favour helping them to grow and make them realise suddenly they need this and also that now they are so and so. End result really doesn't matter. The more moves, the merrier, it is about generating sales leads, and make the sale. Each time a skater changes coach, a spot became available, someone is likely to earn 20% or up to approx. 30% if it is a a proactive hire. The more turnovers the better you can earn, thus successful agencies's candidates are unlikely to stay in the same place for more than 2 years at a time.

Knows your enemies, knows your benefactors. Your enemies you head hunt from and fill the void with your own candidate. If you can't head hunt, then become friend with them to see if there are potential vacant spots which you can supply. Alot of these are speculative positions and hire will eventually lead to a firm deal and can take time to develop.

I wonder how much this decision is really up to Hanyu, the poor lad probably had no idea what is going on except do 'what is best' suggested to him and ends up with a weird situation like this. If it doesn't work out Hanyu, don't be afraid to leave early. If you don't stay for more than 3 months the agency are unlikely to get their full fee. Tough luck!! Just don't be a pawn in someone else's game and do what is best for your own self interests and please take care of yourself.

Willowway
04-25-2012, 11:46 PM
the Orser/Kim break up and IMG's role

Kim (that's where the big bucks were in the duo as far as earning ability) was repped by her mother both before and after the change in coaching. I'm curious not challenging - what is your fact set here? Also, agents don't get 20-30% of anything (I was in a business serving talent agents and managers for many years) - 10% usually of any job they rep you for (there are some arrangements where an agent may provide additional management for certain clients and it's 15%). It's not a head-hunter arrangement where (I assume from what you're saying) one gets a fixed percentage of first year's salary - that's not the entertainment agency biz, it doesn't work that way. So "churning" (which is what you're describing) clients is not in an agent's interest. Again, I'm interested in your facts.

Ziggy
04-25-2012, 11:49 PM
I am really shocked.

Hanyu and Abe seemed to have a very close and special bond.

She's done extremely well with him both technically and in terms of program construction this season.


Nobuo Sato is incompetent when it comes to teaching jumps. Kozuka still can't (most likely, never will) master the quad after four full season's struggles.

That is rather judgemental.

Most skaters will never have consistent quads.

You can't always blame the coach.


has brian orser notably fixed any skater's posture? i'm asking because i don't know, not trying to be contentious.

YNK's toe point wasn't fixed, and her jumps already had excellent technique before she arrived. christina gao still hunches her back 3 years into orser's tutelage.

Gao's PCS skills in general are just :scream:.


Fernandez's consistency and quality of quad jumps are outstanding. I think THAT is one important reason. Even if Orser can't be given the full credits, there are merits to train with the best quad jumper in the world.

Fernandez was very inconsistent this season. A quad alone is not enough if you mess other stuff up.

os168
04-25-2012, 11:59 PM
Kim (that's where the big bucks were in the duo as far as earning ability) was repped by her mother both before and after the change in coaching. I'm curious not challenging - what is your fact set here?

Not really... those you are unable to directly profit from, you can exploit their success by head hunting their team for your potential client's interest down the road, even if they are not looking right now. Part of the trick is about relationship building and seeing the needs and supplies ahead of the time, and of course managing expectations with many friendly coffee meetings which are more than just relationship building.

It is no accident once a company has earned big success getting awards and accolades, they are subject to find their organisation being strategically dismantled by head hunters either by head hunt the entire team, or take them out piece by piece. Skating might be more of a niche market that doesn't have the scale of multinationals, but it is so easy to exploit since there're only so many candidates, so many potential spots and revenue streams, these things need to be planned ahead of time especially everything is per annual season.

I charge 20% for my level of hire (Senior) but i have known MD CEO level hires were at 30%. 10% is standard for general recruitment. It is a matter of volume business, the more volume, the more candidates the lower fee. But imo at Hanyu's Olympic level expectations from a rich federation in this niche industry where there are limited supply and demand of world class coaches, it is likely to be a proactively hire, the fee is likely to be 20-30%. It is just an speculation. These things are impossible to prove, unless someone would care to volunteer on what is the going rate these days.

Willowway
04-26-2012, 12:03 AM
Not really... those you are unable to directly profit from, you can exploit their success by head hunting their team for your potential client's interest down the road, even if they are not looking right now. Part of the trick is about relationship building and seeing the needs and supplies ahead of the time, and of course managing expectations with may friendly coffee meetings which are more than just relationship building.

It is no accident once a company has earned big success getting awards and accolades, they are subject to find their organisation being strategically dismantled by head hunters either by head hunt the entire team, or take them out piece by piece. Skating might be more of a niche market that doesn't have the scale of multinationals, but it is so easy to exploit since there're only so many candidates, so many potential spots and revenue streams, these things need to be planned ahead of time.

It must be me - this argument doesn't appear to work for the sport or the business model. Definitely each to his own point of view though.