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overedge
05-09-2012, 06:07 PM
Right...so after I broken down what little earning can be gained from winnings or likely of sponsorship deals. You are still insisting 10% flat rate is enough to cover from doing ice shows, because 'ALL' competitive's skaters like Hanyu or Rippon get the same rate as the PRO STARS who earned their medals before doing shows full time.

I said nothing about what skaters earn relative to each other, which clearly you are clueless about by even suggesting that $1000 a day is what any skater would accept for doing a show.


It might be better for you learn some business common sense to know when the money doesn't add up beyond making derogatory blanket statements with nothing to support it. Btw just want to be clear, we are talking about sport agencies not talent agencies.

A sports agency is no different from a talent agency. They represent their clients and get paid work for them, and take a percentage of their earnings. If you don't understand that basic principle, then the rest of your argument is even more ridiculous than it already is.

os168
05-09-2012, 08:54 PM
Sorry - each time someone corrects you (and you said you wanted your assumptions to be challenged if they were wrong) you shift your assumptions - you were yelling about IMG and now it's just sports agencies? Those hardly exist - most ice skaters (and other sports talent like tennis, golf, basketball, soccer players, etc.) are signed with talent agencies but in their sports divisions. You just keep shifting your assumptions and arguments sideways - it doesn't work.

You've broken down what you think the numbers are, not what the numbers might actually be. Analyzing wildly inaccurate data doesn't make that data right or the results valid.

You don't have a basic understanding of the numbers involved or how agencies work, and people are allowed to point that out.

Not really, I am trying to framing an argument, a point of view that is why i pick simplest numbers. The data can be changed anytime. I dig what I can find, the rest are suppositions.

So what numbers should we be talking it out... let's work it out. I use the term 'talent' to describe what is traditionally referred as 'players' in sporting terms, which might have caused some confusion I admit. I picked a random easy number based on how much approx Rippon / Hanyu could be getting at local exhibition show. Obviously their rate at a top international show could be a lot more, since there are bigger budget for those type of shows than the local county hall variety. As mentioned, even if you multiply that estimate number $1000x10 it still won't be a feasible business to support their whole year of management. The 10% flat rate might work for PROs circuit for a bonafide star since there are literally NO COSTs involved looking after these star unlike competitive skaters.

You are incorrect, IMG is a sport agency. Read its history. CAA however, started as a show biz agency then also sport.




A sports agency is no different from a talent agency. They represent their clients and get paid work for them, and take a percentage of their earnings. If you don't understand that basic principle, then the rest of your argument is even more ridiculous than it already is.

LOL... you really think there's no difference? Try to tell to the thousands of grads who's studying for degrees in sports management. If you do a little research and ask around you'd likely to find endorsement deals are no way capped at 10%, and that shockingly, different agencies may adapt different business models therefore likely to have different preferential rates. Why? Because there's no law that says you can't unlike talent agencies in California therefore set the benchmark. Until some governance body decide to put their foot down ti cap the rate, they can theoretically charge what ever they want, as long as someone is willing to pay. The rates are likely entirely at agency' own discretion and can vary from sport market to sport market, agency to agency, states to states, country to country. What an eye opener heh? ;)

Here's an interesting paper for all those who are interested to knows the ins and outs sport agents and the ethical dilemmas they frequently faces.

http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1001&context=kristopher_zinchiak

overedge
05-09-2012, 09:56 PM
You are incorrect, IMG is a sport agency. Read its history. CAA however, started as a show biz agency then also sport.

IMG has many clients that have nothing to do with sports. Have you even bothered to look at their website?



LOL... you really think there's no difference? Try to tell to the thousands of grads who's studying for degrees in sports management. If you do a little research and ask around you'd likely to find endorsement deals are no way capped at 10%, and that shockingly, different agencies may adapt different business models therefore likely to have different preferential rates.

You can't even make sense of your own arguments. An athlete signing to endorse a product is a very different business deal from an athlete signing a percentage deal for agency representation. If you knew as much as you claim to know about the industry, you would know the difference.

Japanfan
05-10-2012, 08:42 AM
I said nothing about what skaters earn relative to each other, which clearly you are clueless about by even suggesting that $1000 a day is what any skater would accept for doing a show.


Do you know what the pay rate/range for shows is? (Just curious)

ponta1
05-10-2012, 05:42 PM
Perhaps you'd care to remind that to IMG/Orser. Orser showed the following email he wrote to his formal pupil word for word:


"I am sure you have heard some of the rumours that have been going around Mao. I just want you to know that I am loyal to you and am always here for you. Her agency did inquire about me (and team) working with her, I told them you are my first priority. I have to say I was flattered she has an interest, but your skating comes first"

He then went on Canadian TV saying no offer has been made from anyone from Mao's side. Then JSF also came out strongly denying this. 2 seasons later he is teaching the next golden child of JSF. Who's the unethical one here?
.

Huh? So Orser is unethical because he's going to coach Hanyu?

aliceanne
05-10-2012, 09:24 PM
os168 could have saved a lot of our time by just saying that he/she doesn't like Orser and never will. We get it, now can we please move on.

Willowway
05-10-2012, 09:43 PM
os168 could have saved a lot of our time by just saying that he/she doesn't like Orser and never will.

Thank you!

os168
05-10-2012, 11:34 PM
os168 could have saved a lot of our time by just saying that he/she doesn't like Orser and never will. We get it, now can we please move on.

Sigh... incorrect...

It is more like i don't like greedy meddling agents and bureaucrats who likes to manipulate the playbook and continues to put talents in jeopardy (public face of the sport who has became pawns in these corporate reshuffle games). Including ongoing attempt to influence results that has nothing to do with what goes on the ice. Yes it does ruin my enjoyment of the sport, which I'd like to think is based on fairplay.

The sport should be simpler. Those who is the best on the day wins! They should be financially rewarded better as well, much than they do now, not the greedy agents.

An average sport agent in New York's hourly billing is around $400 an hour not unlike a lawyer. You look at the photo I took from the WC Moscow to see the scale of business they have to do with this sport. I have also proven why 10% earning from a competitive skater alone wouldn't make their business worth which would indicate they are likely to be able to get additional funding likely from federations, or exploit the market by offering bespoke services to whoever want to buy. Think what the sport would be like if that money that goes to these sport agencies should go to the prize money instead? It would make all the skaters less dependable on their federation and less dependable on the agencies. That is the dichotomy facing the skaters today, they are basically trapped.

For the record and I want this to be clear. Orser will always be a legend of this sport. He is a great skater, and likely a great coach who just need a little time to prove himself. If he is moved to Japan, it might work out better for Hanyu, for now for Hanyu's sake, I just don't want him to ends up another victim in someone else's game when it can potentially hurt his skating and health.

arakwafan2006
05-10-2012, 11:38 PM
Yeah...So...um... cant wait to see Hanyu next season...lol

overedge
05-11-2012, 12:55 AM
I have also proven why 10% earning from a competitive skater alone wouldn't make their business worth

No, you haven't.

Roxanne
05-11-2012, 03:12 AM
yoko71 on tumblr has translated a new Yuzuru interview http://yoko71.tumblr.com/tagged/yuzuru-hanyu

Sylvia
05-11-2012, 03:20 AM
Thank you! :) Do you know if the blogger was the one who conducted this interview with Hanyu in Japanese and then translated it? Or is there a link to the interview's original source?

Roxanne
05-11-2012, 03:33 AM
It's from a magazine but I'm not sure what it's called.

Marco
05-11-2012, 08:21 AM
yoko71 on tumblr has translated a new Yuzuru interview http://yoko71.tumblr.com/tagged/yuzuru-hanyu

Thanks for this detailed interview. I did't know his ankle injury was this bad.

Too bad he didn't explain how the commute would work.

allezfred
05-11-2012, 10:13 AM
Thank you! :) Do you know if the blogger was the one who conducted this interview with Hanyu in Japanese and then translated it? Or is there a link to the interview's original source?


It's from a magazine but I'm not sure what it's called.

It's from a sports magazine called "Number" (the May edition) and written by Takaomi Matsubara.