PDA

View Full Version : Yuzuru Hanyu to be coached by Brian Orser



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 [10] 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

seabm7
05-02-2012, 08:59 AM
I don't think the new contract has anything to do with his coaching business, either. That imples IMG would take away part of his teaching fee as theirs, which does not make sense.

IMG is a big presence in the North American ice show business. Orser may want to do some choreography from time to time for those shows. IIRC, he worked for Celebration on Ice tour at the end of 2010.

Marco
05-02-2012, 09:02 AM
Haha, this smells really bad.
Why in the world would a coach need an agent?

Wasn't he featuring in quite a number of Korean ads after the Vancouver Games?

seabm7
05-02-2012, 09:10 AM
Wasn't he featuring in quite a number of Korean ads after the Vancouver Games?

IIRC, just one, not many ads. He was in the Samsung Airconditioner ad. That contract with Samsung ended after 2010 summer.

Willowway
05-02-2012, 04:31 PM
While skaters like Orser, Sato, etc. have relationships with agents left from their performing days, I do not believe that they are repped by those agents for their coaching services. I will check on that with people who have relationships to skating agents so that we get some facts here. Quite a few coaches have multi-faceted careers so that an agent might rep their skating show contracts and appearance (like Brian's ads as stated above) contracts but I think not their coaching arrangements. I would tend to doubt that coaches like Nicks, Carroll, Morozov, Tom Z, Jim Peterson, Krall, Sato (senior), etc. have agents who rep them. I will check however - facts are good.

YukiNieve
05-02-2012, 06:31 PM
I recently heard Ms. Yuka Sato has an agent from IMG.

Willowway
05-02-2012, 06:37 PM
Yes, Yuka has long had an agent from IMG for her performing (shows and appearances) career - that is long-standing relationship. Whether they rep her services as a coach, I don't know but as I said a few posts ago, I will check on that.

os168
05-02-2012, 10:17 PM
I don't think the new contract has anything to do with his coaching business, either. That imples IMG would take away part of his teaching fee as theirs, which does not make sense.

IMG is a big presence in the North American ice show business. Orser may want to do some choreography from time to time for those shows. IIRC, he worked for Celebration on Ice tour at the end of 2010.

The financial side depends on the deal. Usually if it is head hunted, then the agency will bill a fixed amount or % commission lump sum to the buyer separately. Fee wise, the agency would able to negotiate a higher rate for coaching that covers their commissions and that rate should be higher than what Orser was getting. Although I am not sure if this applies to Orser's existing cricket club students, the Agency will likely to have separate arrangement with the cricket club, or maybe their arrangement only covers key high profile world class level students. From a management perspective, I suspect IMG operate more like an umbrella company where they control all the financing, so all funds goes to IMG and they will sort out everyone's taxs and management/expenses/surcharge deductible, then pay off their talents what remains with itemised billing.

Basically the chances are, once a coach is signed with a big agency, his rate will shoot up and his chargeable services will be more organised with a logical breakdown of rates in black and white that makes him appear more expensive and frugal than ever before. The agency will also insist and pressure all Orser's students to sign onto a long term contract and it means good for Orser, bad for his paying customers. If the student is represented by the same agency, they probably won't see any of this and they may benefit from reduced rates or more favorable terms than going through an outside agency, since IMG controls both the demand and the supply.

There are only 4 OGM teams every 4 years and only 2 in singles, it is either going to be Frank Carroll or Brian Orser. If someone want to buy an OGM team, this makes Brian Orser a valuable commodity which an agency can

1. Poach for the client.

2. Bank him for prospective buyers. (Mao, Miki, Kozuka, Kanako are all IMG clients, and I strongly suspect Hanyu would be, or if they are really sneaky, they'd sign him to one of the sister agencies to avoid controversy - Or not, since they are clearly quite AGGRESIVE and BOLD going about undermine their rivals.)

3. Groom him for IMG's skaters. Javier is with IMG too although I am not sure if he is signed before or after Orser. Just like Yuka and Abbot and Rippons are all with IMG. Rippon was previously with Orser. It is more lucrative to broke coach / student deals internally, to assure there's a strong network relationship firmly in place which makes it difficult for the skaters or the coach to leave without jeopardising this relationship. It is preferable for the agency too because they stand to earn from two sides of revenue for more or less the same amount of work.

4. Exploit Orser's existing network contacts and benefit from these network. Potential new candidates and show placements for their portfolio candidates.

Brian as a Choreographer is unlikely. Firstly - David Wilson is known as the choreographer in the cricket club, and with him at least there are volume business. I have no idea how much choreography cost these days? $4000 - $8000 per piece? $600/$800 per day? 10-20% of that only amounts to only few hundred dollars of commission for one-off work. It wouldn't be too smart for multi million dollar company to goto through all that trouble flying to Toronoto, break up a high profiled relationship and then to use him as a choreographer (!?).

Whether Brian is aware of how he has been handled, I don't know. Strictly speaking from a PURE business view, Orser's relationship with Kim is liability for the IMG from the start, especially if they can't also sign Kim. (And it is obvious they wouldn't able to sign Yuna given Mao and Miki are also managed by IMG which would result in huge conflict of interest. Something Yuna experienced when she started out with them, and ends up in legal situations when she changed to IB agency) For starters she is not a candidate, she is practically a rival agency. Orser and Kim never had a formal contract as on paper and their relationship was based entirely on trust. Kim was unwilling to be pressured into signing anything when she wasn't even sure of her future at the time. All their Korea ice show and ads deals they have done, ATS will likely to broke it themselves or have a direct relationship. IMG stand to lose out a big huge chunk of Orser's time when they can place him on something else to earn them good money.

Bottom line: no contract, no money for IMG.... bye Yuna!!

Why did IMG set up Orser to do mass PR campaigns over the course of a week on national and international press circuits, newspaper, televisions carrying out a media offensive making accusations about this high profile breakup? Which coach does that? What are the benefits? The agency is not stupid, they are too experienced in this industry to know better. It was to cut off ties with Kim once and for all, to undermine a rival agency (who was about to put out a rival ice show on home ground - ATS LA in the same week), and to advertise Brian's services to satisfy existing or potential customers.

The role of skater and role of coach are totally different, for starters, their billable hours and management services are different therefore require different t&c with it. Coaching fee are recurring and they are not one - offs, so it does adds up when an OGM coach can have multiple high profile students, clients with deep pockets. Coaches generally have a longer career span than most athletes too.

The so called 'long standing' contract are likely agency 'talk'. Whilst most don't lie *ahem* they just tell 'half truths'. ;) Ask them to produce a signed piece of paper in black and white, you'd find that contract is likely to have an expiry date (or if they are cheeky, they will put up a new date like 99 years), or it might be a rolling contract which it can end anytime with few weeks notice. If it is an old contract, it is likely to have an outdated terms and conditions with an outdated level of services anyway, otherwise it is unfair practice. No contract should last forever. If they tell you otherwise, challenge them and if you are unhappy, move.

ponta1
05-03-2012, 12:15 AM
2. Bank him for prospective buyers. (Mao, Miki, Kozuka, Kanako are all IMG clients, and I strongly suspect Hanyu would be, or if they are really sneaky, they'd sign him to one of the sister agencies to avoid controversy - Or not, since they are clearly quite AGGRESIVE and BOLD going about undermine their rivals.)


Whether Brian is aware of how he has been handled, I don't know. Strictly speaking from a PURE business view, Orser's relationship with Kim is liability for the IMG from the start, especially if they can't also sign Kim. (And it is obvious they wouldn't able to sign Yuna given Mao and Miki are also managed by IMG which would result in huge conflict of interest.

What exactly do you mean--who is aggressive and bold in undermining their rivals? Also, what does Yuna have to do with Mao and Miki and IMG?

os168
05-03-2012, 03:31 AM
What exactly do you mean--who is aggressive and bold in undermining their rivals? Also, what does Yuna have to do with Mao and Miki and IMG?

Incase you hasn't noticed IMG represent majority of the top Japanese skater including Mao and Miki, Yuna's direct rivals. In the agency business, IMG's direct rivals are their client's rival's agency and it is in their business interest to undermine them competitively, publicly and subversively. This happens in any industry involving the agency business. We hate competitors, and we will head hunt their candidates. We just need a good reason to, i.e. some one has to pay or someone has to ask.

IMG signed Brian Orser immediately after the Olympics while Yuna was in Korea. IMG is likely instigated the the big public break up for reasons explained already (i/e no money can be earned from Yuna's side and they need to free up Brian for their big plan to earn $$$ ). Now Brian is going to coach Hanyu, Japan's next big OGM hope. JSF has a history of buying OGM coaches (Morozov, Tat) and pay big money. There're only 2 coaches every 4 years in the singles category. A deal like this don't happen over night and likely to have been planned for some time since a number of things need to fall in place. It is bold and outrageous (though not surprising?) like a melodrama. JSF probably just haven't decide on the suitable candidate until recently. I really doubt Brian would have signed anything unless some big deal is promised to him. Otherwise what is the point to sign with an agency as a coach, he need the work?

This is practically the equivalent of Irina's agency decide to split up Frank Carroll and Michelle Kwan by signing Frank after a WC loss while Michelle is on holiday, then cause them to have big public fall out which they happily publicise on national tv, then Plushy ends up getting coached by Carroll 2 years later (and likely a few other Russian skaters too.) Friggin crazy! I have seen some stunt over the years, this one brings the beef, kobe beef.

If this is ever pulled on Frank, I bet he'd have at least the decency, the foresight and the experience to say 'Hell No!!' when it is clearly a direct's rival's agency that is going to hurt his student regardless of whatever the outcome.

IMG tend to sign on direct coach - student relationships for more lucrative management and control. Here're a selection of their clients.
http://www.imgworld.com/services/talent-representation/figure-skating.aspx

Where there's a demand, money can be made. If the supply is not there, go find one and take it - aggressively and boldly and create some smoke and mirror in the process hoping no one will notice.

Problem is the truth always come out in the end when actions speaks louder than words.

Willowway
05-03-2012, 04:03 AM
IMG signed Brian Orser immediately after the Olympics while Yuna was in Korea

Huh? Brian has been, as far as I know, an IMG client for many many years taking him from his Olympic medal through a very active performing career. They've repped his whole show career and there has been lots of that. I am not clear that they have any financial interest in his coaching situations. As I said, I will ask so that we'll have some facts to discuss.

AJ Skatefan
05-03-2012, 04:04 AM
Huh? Brian has been, as far as I know, an IMG client for manym many years taking him from his Olympic medal through a very active performing career. They've repped his whole show career and there has been lots of that. I am not clear that they have any financial interest in his coaching situations. As I said, I will ask so that we'll have some facts to discuss.

Yes, ask. I thought that Brian had been an IMG client for a long time before Yuna came along. If that's true than all that speculation about the breakup is questionable.

RumbleFish
05-03-2012, 04:19 AM
Speculations are supposed to be questionable. Otherwise, speculations wouldn't be speculations. ;)

Anyhow, let Orser do his stuff with his skaters and chips fall where it may.
So far, none of his skaters have been all that impressive post Kim, but in the end, results at the Sochi Olympics will tell the real truth.

If he is a capable coach, there is no reason why he can't have skaters come to him.
He should earn money using his skills regardless who is paying him, IMG, JSF, or whoever.

Likewise, Kim should move on with her career of earning ton of money despite performing shitty exhibitions numbers. Afterall, it was herside's choice to keep all the money rather than seeking diplomatic solutions with Orser, IMG, JSF or whoever that was involved in the whole ordeeal.

AJ Skatefan
05-03-2012, 04:24 AM
Speculations are supposed to be questionable. Otherwise, speculations wouldn't be speculations. ;)

True, that.

t.mann
05-03-2012, 05:52 AM
IMG tend to sign on direct coach - student relationships for more lucrative management and control. Here're a selection of their clients.
http://www.imgworld.com/services/talent-representation/figure-skating.aspx

Very interesting that on the list, only Brian is a coach.

lakewood
05-03-2012, 06:00 AM
Huh? Brian has been, as far as I know, an IMG client for many many years taking him from his Olympic medal through a very active performing career. They've repped his whole show career and there has been lots of that. I am not clear that they have any financial interest in his coaching situations. As I said, I will ask so that we'll have some facts to discuss.

I know Brian had long been an IMG client, which probably ended when he quit skating. IIRC, there was an article around May, 2010 that Orser signed a contract with IMG along with his students Rippon and Gao.