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Scrufflet
04-24-2012, 03:13 PM
Yes, this bothered me so much about the SLC 2002 events...some members of the Canadian and American media just decided that all Russians were responsible for corruption (perceived or real) and their skaters could only win by cheating. It is fine if they disagreed with the results, but they failed to acknowledge the incredible skating skills and intricate and difficult programs of the Russian skaters. It drove me nuts, and seemed to incite ill feelings towards Russians/Russian-Canadians/Russian-Americans. And yes, I am noticing the anti-Japanese sentiment. It is very sad.

Also, I just wanted to clarify something in my post about the fan wars. I didn't mean to imply that it is all one-sided; it just seems that there is a perception that only V&M fans engage in this kind of disrespectful behaviour when both sides are guilty (though it is only the minority of fans in each group, I believe). I think I just have to try my best not to take the bait of these few posters, though they do upset me.

Also, and on a happier note, enjoy the show, Scrufflet:)

Thank you! I promise to enjoy to the max and look forward to sharing stories afterwards!

Scrufflet
04-24-2012, 03:14 PM
I think its hard to find, wich will be more audience friendly, then this :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Bb2j7dQkQ

And i am really respect canadian FS fans. After all this negative posts they still love skaters from another countries and even wish to see USA and Japan skaters in CSOI - you are something special, guys!
And i am sure real FS fans love skating, but not countries.

You have warmed my heart today! Thank you!

clarie
04-24-2012, 03:27 PM
I feel I don't have much to add, but this thread has become a great place to come with all the positive sentiments. I'm looking forward to "sharing stories" as well B&Kfan.

I'm still debating on attending World's if there are any decent seats left, and if my sweetee will agree to it. He is a V/M fan as well, although to a lesser degree, so I have some convincing to do :).

martyross
04-24-2012, 03:32 PM
You know, I was thinking just a few days ago that for next year maybe V/M should do a uber crowd pleasing piece to crowd pleasing music like DF or Latin FD. When they are so close technically with D/W, crowd reception may play a role in the PCS mark (although next World's is in London).

Now I am changing my tunes. V/M should continue to grow as artists in the direction they want. FF was not as crowd pleasing and even got poor reviews solely because of the music. But darn it Tessa and Scott to me grew a whole lot as artists and performers and DANCERS skating to something they believe in and can invest their hearts in. If next season they pick another piece of music that can bring them to new heights as Ice Dancers, they can skate to Requiem to a Dream for all I care. actually not really but you know what I mean :P
you know, you're so right. Maybe we're shifting to a wrong conception of ice dance. I mean, in the last year, it almost became a contest of who gets the biggest ovation as though skaters were rock stars at a concert. It is probably part of modern Western culture. The more noise you get, the more success (and money) you get, and the better artist you are.
Our perception started with our frustration back in the GP series. VM fans started to be defensive and were pushed to nitpick on Tessa and Scott's programs in order to come up with a solution at the scores. One of the factors in exam was the crowd reaction.
Now, we all know that skaters want the gold, at the end of the day. So, they have to work through the COP, that is quite complicated, as it reflects the complexity of the sport itself.
Fans on boards are often biased and so, tend to skip the complexity. And in boards there's no real dialogue. One can go on posting the wuzrobbed complaint for 100 times, no one will stop him. It will end up changing the perception of the readers, about the skaters who has more success in the skating community, or even, who's the best skater.
It's not very different from the famous "politicking", in the end.
In many cases, people who go to competitions, want to see and cheer loud for the favourite, regardless of how the favourite does. Which is nice, but objectively speaking, it makes that part of the crowd a biased audience. Of course they will clap less for the archirival, it's natural.
In other cases, some people just want to spend a fun, unusual night at the stadium, without knowing figure skating that well, so no knowledge of the COP and its complexity. They cheer for the home athlete, or for the song or opera that they like. That's fine too.
These are just examples to say that the crowd is not unbiased are it is often pictured, or is not the truth's mouth on the value of a skater.
The crowd factor is a very simplified concept. We generalize people's opinion based on how much clapping we hear. But it's always this eternal problem: there are thousand people and a lot of different opinions. It's like saying "Italian people are nice" basing on a certain generalized image of the country.
And then, does the opinions of all this people really count, i wonder?
A skater does not have to base his hard work and career on such fickle element as the audience tastes. He has no obligation to chose the popular opera or to do spectacular lifts. First and foremost, as we said, they have to meet the many requirements of COP. Then, to be appealing to the judges. Pleasing people is a bonus, because it's not people who hand him the gold medal. Rude, but true.
As you pointed out, a skater is an individual with his own tastes and preference. He will be the one who works his butt off for months, not the audience.
So I think we kind of moved toward a "dictatorship" of the audience in the last year. But, among VM fans, it all began in the GP series, because in the rest of the season, our dear Tessa and Scott got very good marks, and won when it counted.
Let's see things with rationality while moving to the next season. And as you did, let's put ourselves in the skaters' perspective, rather than always fans'. (:

pani
04-24-2012, 07:12 PM
Kurt Brauning talking about CSOI (sorry, if this link were posted before)/
http://www.thestar.com/sports/figureskating/article/1163916--kurt-browning-to-choreograph-stars-on-ice

We’ve got four amazing skaters. They’re all really tall, and they all have hair, and they’re gorgeous. So I’m like, I’m out of it.” :lol:
O, Kurt :hat1:

Bournekraatzfan
04-24-2012, 07:21 PM
you know, you're so right. Maybe we're shifting to a wrong conception of ice dance. I mean, in the last year, it almost became a contest of who gets the biggest ovation as though skaters were rock stars at a concert. It is probably part of modern Western culture. The more noise you get, the more success (and money) you get, and the better artist you are.
Our perception started with our frustration back in the GP series. VM fans started to be defensive and were pushed to nitpick on Tessa and Scott's programs in order to come up with a solution at the scores. One of the factors in exam was the crowd reaction.
Now, we all know that skaters want the gold, at the end of the day. So, they have to work through the COP, that is quite complicated, as it reflects the complexity of the sport itself.
Fans on boards are often biased and so, tend to skip the complexity. And in boards there's no real dialogue. One can go on posting the wuzrobbed complaint for 100 times, no one will stop him. It will end up changing the perception of the readers, about the skaters who has more success in the skating community, or even, who's the best skater.
It's not very different from the famous "politicking", in the end.
In many cases, people who go to competitions, want to see and cheer loud for the favourite, regardless of how the favourite does. Which is nice, but objectively speaking, it makes that part of the crowd a biased audience. Of course they will clap less for the archirival, it's natural.
In other cases, some people just want to spend a fun, unusual night at the stadium, without knowing figure skating that well, so no knowledge of the COP and its complexity. They cheer for the home athlete, or for the song or opera that they like. That's fine too.
These are just examples to say that the crowd is not unbiased are it is often pictured, or is not the truth's mouth on the value of a skater.
The crowd factor is a very simplified concept. We generalize people's opinion based on how much clapping we hear. But it's always this eternal problem: there are thousand people and a lot of different opinions. It's like saying "Italian people are nice" basing on a certain generalized image of the country.
And then, does the opinions of all this people really count, i wonder?
A skater does not have to base his hard work and career on such fickle element as the audience tastes. He has no obligation to chose the popular opera or to do spectacular lifts. First and foremost, as we said, they have to meet the many requirements of COP. Then, to be appealing to the judges. Pleasing people is a bonus, because it's not people who hand him the gold medal. Rude, but true.
As you pointed out, a skater is an individual with his own tastes and preference. He will be the one who works his butt off for months, not the audience.
So I think we kind of moved toward a "dictatorship" of the audience in the last year. But, among VM fans, it all began in the GP series, because in the rest of the season, our dear Tessa and Scott got very good marks, and won when it counted.
Let's see things with rationality while moving to the next season. And as you did, let's put ourselves in the skaters' perspective, rather than always fans'. (:

great post! very interesting points!

Bournekraatzfan
04-24-2012, 07:46 PM
Sorry if this was posted before, but here is a link to the ISU WTT page with many photos (competition and banquet):

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.402191406472473.99712.255007411190874&type=1

martyross
04-24-2012, 07:46 PM
I think its hard to find, wich will be more audience friendly, then this :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Bb2j7dQkQ


oh no, i beg you...i hate this piece to death... it's like the death march for freedom and indipendence of Italy. I get sick everytime i hear it! :(

Thank you, Bournekraatz! (: i just wish i knew English more, i could express my thoughts better (:

Bournekraatzfan
04-24-2012, 08:00 PM
... (: i just wish i knew English more, i could express my thoughts better (:

You express your thoughts very, very well. great post!

pani
04-24-2012, 08:10 PM
oh no, i beg you...i hate this piece to death... it's like the death march for freedom and indipendence of Italy. I get sick everytime i hear it! :(

:lol:

pingu
04-24-2012, 08:44 PM
oh no, i beg you...i hate this piece to death... it's like the death march for freedom and indipendence of Italy. I get sick everytime i hear it! :(

:confused:

martyross
04-24-2012, 09:41 PM
:confused:

it's the Radetzky March.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Radetzky#La_repressione

P.s. Are milanese people really that bad? :P

frisette70
04-24-2012, 09:45 PM
Scott just post this on facebook!!lol

"Arrived in Halifax. Lets get this tour started. LOVE N' LIFE."

pingu
04-24-2012, 09:53 PM
it's the Radetzky March.

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Radetzky#La_repressione

P.s. Are milanese people really that bad? :P

I know what it is, I didn't understand to what other music you were referring to.
About the milanese, yes. But thank god lots of people are from the south (like my parents :D) or are immigrates, so the grumpiness is diluted a bit.

martyross
04-24-2012, 10:00 PM
This nice website has some rare pictures of T&S
http://pinterest.com/beastcheng/figure-skating/