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View Full Version : Duhamel/Radford switching throws and jumps



Blair
04-21-2012, 09:56 PM
I was just notcing that Duhamel/Radford have been switching up their sbs jumps and throws all season long. I applaud their ability to land all the different jumps and throws (particularly the lutz :kickass:), but I wonder how much that's played with their consistency and muscle memory?

This season they've done sbs 3lutz, 3flip, 3sal and 3toes in different combinations...really only sticking with the salchow in most programs. Similar story with the throws. Is this strategic or do they just like variety?

Rock2
04-22-2012, 12:30 AM
This team probably more than others makes most of their decisions based on ability to max out on points. They don't look just at base values but also at GOE potential. I believe 3LTh changed to 3STh because they thought they could get more GOE on the latter. SBS 3T changed to 3S for the extra half point.

They recently changed the 3FTh into more of a lutz entrance. I like this; gets them more height/distance and therefore more chance for GOE.

They know that sbs 3Z with a mistake is about same as sbs 3S so they added the lutz back in once they felt more consistent with it.

Here are a couple of things I'd ask them to think about.

1. When they were doing lutz entrances in the short and flip entrances in the long on sbs they were getting edge calls all over the place. When they took the sbs lutzes out of the short last year they started getting the sbs 3F in the long called as lutzes and with no edge problems. I fear they will confuse the judges again by putting lutzes back into the short but with different entrance path than the long...if you follow.
I would recommend they enter the "lutz" the same way in both the short as well as long. Why do it differently? Besides, their hit rate in the long was pretty good.

2. I would go for more points by doing the sbs 3Z in the long not in combo...and then do the sbs 3S as a 3 jump combo after the half way mark and get bonus points. Mind you that makes for crowded back half if you're putting your two throws and lifts in back half for bonus. Maybe bring the 3STh to the front half. Better to get the bonus on the higher scoring 3 jump combo.

Anyway this team will not stand pat over the summer. They will brainstorm every way possible to get levels and GOE up (along with PCS) so watch for more changes.

screech
04-22-2012, 06:37 AM
As confusing as it sounds, consistency isn't always consistent. They're likely consistent on all their jumps, but sometimes some jumps just get kind of wacky for a bit and others a bit more secure, so you'd want to do the more secure ones. When the wacky ones get back on track, they can go back in.

When I was a skater, I went through phases where I would lose one of my jumps for months, then all of a sudden it would come back like nothing happened. I've seen it happen to many others too - that could be a factor with them.

Plus, Meagan seems to be more consistent on her solo triples than Eric does, which is probably also an issue in deciding what will be done and when.

DORISPULASKI
04-22-2012, 09:59 AM
Given Megan's ability to land all these jumps, could she please make up a singles routine to skate at the next WTT?

essence_of_soy
04-22-2012, 02:03 PM
Much as I admire their solid technical ability, for me D & R's constant mixing and matching of elements makes watching their programs look less like an actual performance than clocking up points.

Rock2
04-22-2012, 05:14 PM
I agree. They have scary base tech values in all of their programs. The upside is that they need to develop their look.
Their 4 programs over the last years were all pretty good. My favorite so far was their long last year. I haven't seen anything yet that I could point to as being a "signature style" for them which is hard to do in part because they are very different skaters.

Julie Marcotte does some pretty decent programs, but I felt that D/R fought their choreography esp in the short for most of the year to get it to look natural whereas T/T's Marcotte programs looked seamless from the start.

I suspect they will get 2 new programs this year; curious to see what they are. I'd like the short to be something "happy" so that it makes sense for Meagan to smile (and Eric) vs points in their long this year where Meagan had smiling choreographed into the routine, even at points that I thought were serene and introspective. Looking for more authentic emotion that matches the musical themes...

Ziggy
04-22-2012, 05:19 PM
As confusing as it sounds, consistency isn't always consistent. They're likely consistent on all their jumps, but sometimes some jumps just get kind of wacky for a bit and others a bit more secure, so you'd want to do the more secure ones. When the wacky ones get back on track, they can go back in.

When I was a skater, I went through phases where I would lose one of my jumps for months, then all of a sudden it would come back like nothing happened. I've seen it happen to many others too - that could be a factor with them.

Very good points.

Duhamel/Radford practice all triples up to the 3lutz.

I imagine that the goal is to have 3flip/2toe/2toe and 3lutz in the FS and 3lutz in the SP but they will switch the jumps based on their current consistency levels.


I agree. They have scary base tech values in all of their programs. The upside is that they need to develop their look.

They do but they've already made some improvements this season. Meagan's posture and lines have improved considerably.

One thing they really seem to be lacking is their own style. Hopefully they can work that out by Sochi. :)

Sylvia
04-22-2012, 06:30 PM
This season they've done sbs 3lutz, 3flip, 3sal and 3toes in different combinations...really only sticking with the salchow in most programs. Similar story with the throws. Is this strategic or do they just like variety?
Here's a relevant excerpt/quote from an article in September 2011 when Duhamel/Radford competed at a club competition in New York City: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110920&content_id=24951186&vkey=ice_news

Although both are strong jumpers, they are still grappling with which triple jump to present in the short.

"We've been playing around with the jumps in the short program, because I haven't landed the jump yet since we started skating together," Duhamel said. "We've tried Lutzes, we've tried toes, we've tried flips. We're going to keep on playing until we find the magic key."

Their Coldplay free skate at Mid-Atlantics opened with a solid triple twist, followed by triple flip-double toe-double toe combinations and intended triple Salchows, with the remainder of the difficult elements loaded in the second half.

They earned 97.54 points, losing ground when they doubled the Salchows and Duhamel fell on the landing of a throw triple flip.

"We added a triple Salchow this year [to the free] versus a triple toe last year. We have some different lifts, and we also put all of the lifts in the second half to get the bonus [points]," Radford said. "We do throw [triple] flip and loop, and they're also both in the second half, so we're really maximizing our points, which means it's all a lot more challenging."

ETA: Nice to see Takahashi/Tran met and/or exceeded their season's goals as stated in the same article :):

Takahashi and Tran hope to add more difficulty to their routines.

"To get the triple twist and throw [triple] flip in the program for our Grand Prix events, that would be killer," Tran said. "We're known for having everything else, for having nice graceful connections and high levels, so we want to be known for the big tricks, too. We want to make the [Grand Prix] Final for sure, and we're shooting for top five at worlds."

Erin
04-22-2012, 06:44 PM
Given Megan's ability to land all these jumps, could she please make up a singles routine to skate at the next WTT?

After watching practices at 4CC where Meagan was far more consistent on her triples than either Amelie or Cynthia (including a gorgeous double axel-triple toe combination), I felt like she would have been the best choice for the Canadian ladies entry to Worlds. :shuffle: (Hopefully Kaetlyn Osmond's newfound consistency this season will carry into next year and save us from all the remaining Canadian ladies and then we don't need to worry about recruiting from pairs.)

I always found it interesting that the one sbs triple they haven't tried is the loop, which was probably Meagan's best jump as a singles skater. The only reason I can think of is that maybe there's a timing/unison issue - Meagan always did the jump out of running threes and maybe she can't do it any other way and it doesn't work for Eric do the running threes entrance.

Like many here, I hope that they really find their style this year and work with a new choreographer. I like a lot of Marcotte's work and the programs she did for Takahashi & Tran were inspired, but it doesn't seem like she brings out the best in D&R (or they don't bring out her best). I felt the same way about her work for Duhamel & Buntin and while I liked the programs she did for Marcoux & Buntin, they never really got good PCS marks from the judges. I'm not really sure who they should go to, though...I don't think that either David Wilson or Lori Nichol would really suit their style, nor Marina Zueva. Maybe someone like Sarah Kawahara or Pasquale Camerlengo, although everyone is flocking to Camerlengo these days.

Blair
04-23-2012, 04:08 PM
Thanks for the replies! I hope they settle on the sbs lutz and sal for the FP and use whichever jump is more consistent for the short. I think that could maximize their GOE potential and keep some risk factor in there. I'd also like to see them stick with the tougher throws and do a loop and lutz to keep the base values maxed.

I tend to agree with the comments on their style and choreography. It seems like they still haven't found a look and concept that's all their own yet, despite the fact that both are gorgeous skaters in their own right.

However their style evolves, I hope they're able to make better use of Eric's gorgeous lines and Meagan's power and strength.