PDA

View Full Version : The thread of the ice dance good old days



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8

gk_891
04-22-2012, 08:31 PM
B&K both fell while performing a lift. Even without the fall, I remember the the guys from british eurosport saying that B&K FD wasn't good enough and that it looked empty in some places.
D&V were totally robbed at the OG02. They skated a super OD and a wonderful FD and still had to go home with empty hands...

I would've had Drobiazko & Vanagas in 2nd for sure.

Katarzyna
04-22-2012, 08:36 PM
I think nuge was slighty mocking Sandra Bezic's comment in the video posted prior to his/her post.
Ooops, sorry! Should have watched the video before posting. :o
Bezic's comments start to bother me, as I've notice some annoying one on another occasion as well. :blah:

skatesindreams
04-22-2012, 08:45 PM
Not to take anything away from great champions Linichuk and Karponosov, but in 1980, a gold medal winning program looked like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gxu4LbJUXrM). The program was a series of dissimilar dances pasted together to show mastery over all styles. (I must admit I giggled uncontrollably back in 1980 when I saw this great Soviet team segue into what passed for a hoedown dance!)

Even Torvill & Dean's dance was very traditional. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzeqrQGye_U

Two short years later, Torvill & Dean ignored the prevailing rules and introduced this program - not traditional dance at all, but a program with a theme and creative, unique moves that supported that theme. Mack and Mabel (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNJQXCQt7Ek)

In 1983, they ignored the rules again, and armed with a great deal of research, created together with Barnum star Michael Crawford the remarkable Barnum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydN5Glf9KI0) program. There are moments in this program that they move as two interlocking pieces of machinery, the moves are so complicated. One definitely feels as if they are attending a circus when they watch this. And of course, they shock everyone with the back flip. (As a side note, some of these moves come directly from the stage musical Barnum Incredible!)

And there was 1984's masterpiece, Bolero (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2zbbN4OL98). They received criticism for this dance because they used not traditional dance music, but classical music with no discernable dance beat, and the rhythm of the music was pretty much the same throughout the program.

There were other programs of course, like the 1984 paso doble OSP where Jane actually "became" a matador's cape. No one had seen ice dance like this before, and if weren't for them, we wouldn't have had Klimova and Ponomarenko's Bach program, or the Carmens of B&B and K&O, the great programs of A&P, the list goes on. And they heavily influenced the Finns R&K, who carried their creativity even further.

It may be hard in hindsight to appreciate T&D's contributions because we are used to today's programs, but for those of us who lived that period, what they did and achieved was astonishing.

A few more thoughts about Torvill and Dean:

Here is their historic and masterful OSP from 1982 "Summertime" , complete.
This was the slowest tempo then allowed; and the music was thought "impossible" to dance to at the time.
With the wonderful explanatory comments of Alan Weeks.

Torvill & Dean 1982 - OSP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6hZBxPAcls

I doubt that anything as extraordinary as this will be seen again.

One of the great challenges imposed by the rules of the day is that dancers were only supposed to separate for very brief changes of position.

In the British broadcast of "Bolero" from 1984 Europeans, shot from behind, you can clearly see the way that Jayne and Chris were interweaving, intertwined; and touching, throughout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uieV3APgDI8

A fabulous concept with great choreography, of course.
However, it took incredible technique and skill, from two masters of the art, to bring it off.

Bravo!
It's still stunning; no matter how many times I've watched it.

Katarzyna
04-22-2012, 08:57 PM
it's interesting to see how Russian dance became after the greats. Navka/Kostomarov and Domnina/Shabalin look the same to me. a skating that wants to be grand, but comes off cold or even empty in its virtuosism. dont know if its the COP...i.e., less freedom. and it seems a steady decline.
Well, I think as for N/K you can partly blame COP, as I saw them quite often in exhibitions and they were terrific there. They really had energy and personality on the ice. :cheer2:

I think N/K were among those couples being in the most difficult situation that they had to switch from the 6.0 to the COP system in a very short time, though they had skated for most of their career under the 6.0 system. Basically I felt that most of the couples being in the same boat looked quite laboured these times. There were very few outstanding skates of the “old generation couples”, e.g. some of Denkova / Staviskij, but I can't remember many. :confused:

Regarding Dominina/Shabalin I think their progress was pretty much hampered by his injury. They really looked very promising when they came on the scene with winning JW in 2003. But they seemed to decline somehow later on. It’s just sad if skaters can’t realize their potential due to injury. :(


They skated a super OD and a wonderful FD and still had to go home with empty hands...
Sad, but true. :(
Have to add that their FD in 2000 is one of my all-time favourites (still today holding my breath when watching it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtoCrUkXQcw

Certainly a "good old days" couple, as they first competed at Euros and Worlds in 1992. :)

DORISPULASKI
04-22-2012, 08:58 PM
It is! Bravo!! one again to them.

pani
04-22-2012, 09:15 PM
After read all thread i can only add to this list/
Denkova-Staviisky 2003 OD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGFbFEDI6DA
2004 FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEQjDJLeWdI
Lang & Tchernyshev blues FD in 2002 (Zhulin know, how blues must look like)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWr6UC-FCzI

Chait Sakhnovsky 2001 FD (i know, she was not a good skater, but i like this FD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCDLaDAAnoY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSWZ8bxDrjs&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pytv2NLgfTY&feature=related

And from old times i like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiAP0W7rWzs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg4RegpWt2M

zotza
04-22-2012, 09:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03MLZRFouqA&feature=related
One of my favorite FDs ,Moiseeva/Minenkov Concerto de Aranguez.I think it was so ahead of its time.

martyross
04-22-2012, 09:46 PM
After read all thread i can only add to this list/
Denkova-Staviisky 2003 OD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGFbFEDI6DA
2004 FD
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEQjDJLeWdI
Lang & Tchernyshev blues FD in 2002 (Zhulin know, how blues must look like)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWr6UC-FCzI

Chait Sakhnovsky 2001 FD (i know, she was not a good skater, but i like this FD)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCDLaDAAnoY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSWZ8bxDrjs&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pytv2NLgfTY&feature=related

And from old times i like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiAP0W7rWzs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zg4RegpWt2M
i was wondering when you would have joined the thread :)

re: Torvill&Dean "revolution", from what i understood looking at pollyanna's links, in the '70s ice dance was based on ballroom, like in the Linichuck video; and then, Dean brought mimicry and characterization (Barnum program), which expanded the range of themes in ice dance. Later, Torvill&Dean produced more abstract routines (Bolero), and so we could see "Aria" and "Four seasons", for example. is that right?

martyross
04-22-2012, 09:55 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03MLZRFouqA&feature=related
One of my favorite FDs ,Moiseeva/Minenkov Concerto de Aranguez.I think it was so ahead of its time.

so ahead of its time indeed! very interesting. even though i'm not expert, i think this looks like modern ice dance already, with the plus of the elegant unison that made Russian pairs/dance great.
p.s. I feel that US commentators are often ironic about "drama" when it comes to Russia. in this video, the guy said it was over-dramatic (Ganon said it about Krylova many years later) but i actually think it's unfair.

blue_idealist
04-23-2012, 01:04 AM
Speaking of Denkova/Staviyski, 2004 FD, my favourite program from them even though the video is bad quality:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJuCv07i0LA

PashaFan
04-23-2012, 10:44 AM
you mean that Dom Shab won on technique? im going to rewatch this competition, but i seem to remember people complained about their FD PC. anyway, Dom Shabs' refined skills were nice to watch and made them look sophisticated.

I watched the last two groups of the 09' World's OD last night & a few things came to mind.
V/M made three errors (Scott on the twizzles, their spin & a trip on the step sequence).
D/W made two errors (Charlie on the twizzles & on the step sequence).
I forgot about that.
K/N made an error on their twizzles.
K/K made an error on their twizzles.
F/S fell.
Looking at the event over the three stages, P/B & B/A were the only one's who went clean.
Dom/Sha were clean but very slow.
B/A were the best in the OD & FD but I wish they had gone for a more crowd pleasing program. I think that would have pushed them to the Gold.

martyross
04-23-2012, 05:56 PM
Torvill & Dean 1982 - OSP
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6hZBxPAcls

I doubt that anything as extraordinary as this will be seen again.



i literally had to remember to breathe watching this :eek:

martyross
04-23-2012, 06:11 PM
Are Pro programms allowed? Because this ist one of my favourite Usova & Zhulin programms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHenOTnIT3Y&context=C40ef2caADvjVQa1PpcFNI1sa-FLVVY5e3gJCR-Q-VJK1ighyqoRU=

What is "evil fate"? Is Usova portraiting the devil?

skatesindreams
04-23-2012, 09:40 PM
I don't think it was about T&D ignoring or breaking the rules. They had to work within them. But it was probably more at the time doing things that no-one else had considered and did leave open questions to how they had interpreted them.

How they worked within the rules.
In their own words, with a demonstration:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yllC-wOKsxY&feature=relmfu

Another gorgeous performance of "Bolero" follows.

skatesindreams
04-23-2012, 09:42 PM
deleted
double post