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essence_of_soy
04-19-2012, 06:59 AM
Angela Nikodinov was mentioned in another thread today, which prompted me to look at her spectacular free skate from US Nationals in 2001.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGsMDXLyXxs&feature=related

Watching this reminded me what was great about the 6.0 system (and what is lacking in IJS). You would never see a program with this apparent simplicity or fluidity. Nikodinov's layback alone is worth the price of admission.

Yes, the marking system makes the judges more accountable and this breakdown allows skaters to work on their weaknesses.

However, a lot of programs today look like they're attacking the ice like a vegetable knife on a chopping board.

Vash01
04-19-2012, 07:50 AM
Lyra Angelica by Michelle Kwan- you will never see such beauty and feeling in an IJS program.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okPRcajUQrM

Maria Butyrskaya: 2000 worlds SP. I love her maturity and expression, something that IJS cannot really put a value on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVt3I4IL18s

Gordeeva-Grinkov Moonlight Sonata:You don't see such purity, lines, unison, anymore. Most pairs programs are too frenetic now, trying to cram in as many positions as possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY7HFPSmx8M

Berezhnaya-Sikharulidze: Lady Caliph. I cannot imagine this program without the attention to every detail, like unison on jumps, spins, lines and posture- something that IJS does not consider important.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAJUcgMZMO4

Klimova-Ponomarenko 1988 Olympics OD (Tango) really showcases their technical perfection, and they do it by keeping it simple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpg2lfunwTM

I will think of more later.

briancoogaert
04-19-2012, 08:09 AM
Almost every free dance.
Especially Grishuk&Platov's Passion, Klimova&Ponomarenko's Air, Torvill&Dean's Bolero ...

Vash01
04-19-2012, 08:13 AM
Angela Nikodinov was mentioned in another thread today, which prompted me to look at her spectacular free skate from US Nationals in 2001.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGsMDXLyXxs&feature=related

Watching this reminded me what was great about the 6.0 system (and what is lacking in IJS). You would never see a program with this apparent simplicity or fluidity. Nikodinov's layback alone is worth the price of admission.

Yes, the marking system makes the judges more accountable and this breakdown allows skaters to work on their weaknesses.

However, a lot of programs today look like they're attacking the ice like a vegetable knife on a chopping board.

I agree. I miss the simplicity and direct relation to music we used to see under 6.0

This (Giselle, from the 2002 US nationals) was not Angela's best performance, but I love the way she moves, and her layback spin is one of the best ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb3t7MAvT-U

PashaFan
04-19-2012, 04:31 PM
Angela Nikodinov was mentioned in another thread today, which prompted me to look at her spectacular free skate from US Nationals in 2001.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGsMDXLyXxs&feature=related

Watching this reminded me what was great about the 6.0 system (and what is lacking in IJS). You would never see a program with this apparent simplicity or fluidity. Nikodinov's layback alone is worth the price of admission.

Yes, the marking system makes the judges more accountable and this breakdown allows skaters to work on their weaknesses.

However, a lot of programs today look like they're attacking the ice like a vegetable knife on a chopping board.

I loved Angela's free that season. Her NHK Trophy free skate was fantastic.
I too really miss the simple moves. A simple spiral or camel spin :(
Tatiana Malinina was another who did simple yet lovely moves in her free that season.
Will we ever see another program as beautiful as Lyra Angelica again?

PeterG
08-16-2012, 11:57 PM
These are great examples, but I think all these skaters would create great works under CoP as well. :respec:

AndyWarhol
08-17-2012, 03:49 AM
This is why CoP makes me sad. I prefer a one position amazing layback compared to layback/side/haircutter/beillman... however, you would be mad to not do these extra positions. At least now we aren't subjected to 100 ugly catch foot spirals.

MR-FAN
08-17-2012, 03:59 AM
Truly spectacular skaters would perform as brilliantly under the 6.0 system as under IJS. I could've never imagined seeing something like Lambiel's Poeta, Savchenko & Szolkowy's Pina, Kostner's Shostakovich SP, or Virtue & Moir's Mahler FD under IJS until I saw them. Greatness transcends scoring systems

julieann
08-17-2012, 05:33 AM
I just see and extreme lack of difficulty especially with Nikodinov (how many crossovers can someone do?) and G/G. I'm still not sure how G/G won a gold medal with so many small errors and double jumps (I think I may have even seen a single jump?) What some see as simplicity or fluidity I just see as slow.

I do wish todays system gave more freedom to the choreographer but I have no say in how the ISU operates. Back in the day the skaters were great but after seeing how far the sport has come I wouldn't ever want to go back. I far prefer V/M, S/S, Yuna and Patrick to days gone by.

PeterG
08-17-2012, 06:36 AM
...and G/G. I'm still not sure how G/G won a gold medal with so many small errors and double jumps (I think I may have even seen a single jump?) What some see as simplicity or fluidity I just see as slow.

But they deserved to remain in the top 10, right?

:P

julieann
08-17-2012, 07:32 AM
But they deserved to remain in the top 10, right?

:P

Lol, I certainly think they should have won silver but not beat M/D.

Vagabond
08-17-2012, 07:57 AM
Charles Tickner 1978 Worlds Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVNImLRliFU) :swoon: PCS to die for, but CoP can't process those step sequences that somehow have spins and jumps incorporated into them.

Surya Bonaly 1991 Worlds Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mmZhBy1IXQ) As the female commentator (Sandra Bezic?) says, "Her priorities are obvious. She's skating from one end of the rink to the other, performing triples, with little thought to other skills."

Mark Mitchell 1992 Skate Lalique Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5excMbjLGck) CoP has no way of recognizing moves like the twenty-second one-foot spiral-like glide starting at about 3:08.

Oksana Baiul 1994 Olympics Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_fvrG3f0fI) "Step sequences? I ain't got no step eequences. We don't need no step sequences! I don't have to show you any stinkin' step sequences!"

Laurent Tobel 1997 Worlds Free Skate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6CcGLX5XMg) His "step sequences," if that's what they are, have an entertainment value, but there's not much there technically.

Finnice
08-17-2012, 09:17 AM
Truly spectacular skaters would perform as brilliantly under the 6.0 system as under IJS. I could've never imagined seeing something like Lambiel's Poeta, Savchenko & Szolkowy's Pina, Kostner's Shostakovich SP, or Virtue & Moir's Mahler FD under IJS until I saw them. Greatness transcends scoring systems

I totally agree. IJS is not perfect and it has affected more to the ice dance than to other disciplines, but we DO get some fantastic programs with it, too.