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Orable
04-22-2012, 11:51 PM
I am glad this girl is able to skate but I do recall Orable's friend logging on here and lecturing us about skating being sinful. So I am wondering how wide spread the view is that skating or gymnastics or ice dancing is fine for Muslim girls.
My friend? Someone I know perhaps, but while some of my friends are conservative, I can't imagine they'd go on some site and lecture people they don't know...

You guys, this girl comes from a really conservative part of the world - even for Muslims - and her parents and community (and press) seem supportive. Let's celebrate that instead of "what if-ing" terrible scenarios.

JanetB
04-23-2012, 01:14 AM
I think that probably her pants are fitted as taut as she is allowed to have them. She may not be allowed to have them any tighter. I think it's miraculous that she is allowed to ice skate competitively as it is.

Making the leg taunter would not make it tighter if you look at this picture of Adam Rippon (http://www.facebook.com/isufigureskating#!/photo.php?fbid=403710169653930&set=a.402191406472473.99712.255007411190874&type=1&theater), I think you can see what I mean. His pants are not tight around his legs but they are pulled tight down the length of his legs. If I were her designer I would put her in black pants and boots like Adam, like over the boot tights this would lengthen her leg line. Secondly I would Jazz up her hijab, if she is going to wear it why not rock it. If you look at some of these (http://www.google.com/search?q=hijab+fashion&hl=en&rlz=1T4SUNC_enCA384CA384&prmd=imvnsl&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=4JuUT6fPHYq26QHX9NSIBA&ved=0CHoQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=558&sei=5puUT9WtL6eW6AHJv6HCBA) hijabs they are lovely and could very easily be made into the focus of the costume. This (http://kiokote.blogspot.ca/2011/04/hijab-style-that-i-heart.html) blue one with the black pants and tunic with similar details would kick ass.

4rkidz
04-23-2012, 02:28 AM
:rofl:

Well, it depends on where you'd do it, doesn't it? There were / are cultures where being completely nude was / is just natural. In Germany there was a very active nudist movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FKK) (link not safe at work) at the beginning of the 20th century, but the Nazis didn't like it and argued as follows

:shuffle: Lunatics always cite similar reasons, it's terrifying.

But there are still nude-only beaches in Germany and the movement got some of it's popularity back.
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slightly off topic but when ever we go to the Caribbean and there are older nude people or men in skimpy speedos.. we always say 'oh they must be German' :rofl: my hubby lived there for a while and I've always appreciated their confidence in not caring how they look naked :shuffle:

brightphoton
04-23-2012, 03:59 AM
No matter what you wear, there's always going to be someone calling into question your morals and character based on the clothes you wear. I remember there was some blog calling the costumes of figure skating scandalous and perhaps implying that figure skaters were no better than prostitutes. As an example, they put up a picture of Kimmie Meissner in her 2007 LP dress. Some people can't be pleased.

kwanfan1818
04-23-2012, 04:52 AM
What about spirals and other body positions that may be interpreted as sexually suggestive?
I think one of the proposals for next year was the option of doing a moves in the field sequence instead of a spiral step sequence.

IceAlisa
04-23-2012, 04:55 AM
I think one of the proposals for next year was the option of doing a moves in the field sequence instead of a spiral step sequence.

:rolleyes:

Ziggy
04-23-2012, 02:47 PM
I think one of the proposals for next year was the option of doing a moves in the field sequence instead of a spiral step sequence.

Great idea this.

Spirals can be very impressive when performed to a Czisny standard but in most cases... :scream:

agalisgv
04-23-2012, 05:08 PM
Wish they'd get rid of the required layback spin too.

IceAlisa
04-23-2012, 05:24 PM
Why? I love the layback when done right like Cohen for instance. Or the Pearl spin by Zhang is just :swoon: Seeing it live was one of the highlights of 2012 Nationals.

kwanfan1818
04-23-2012, 05:33 PM
[broken record]

I think the rules for Ladies and Men should be the same, and that laybacks and spiral step sequences shouldn't be required for Ladies.

[/broken record]

In terms of modesty, which will be individually determined in context, the biggest challenges are the spirals, where there's a minimum height requirement to count, the layback with breasts in the air, and the camel position. The first may be able to be addressed through moves in the field, and the second through a side position layback spin, but the camel may have to be avoided, which could have an impact on levels, unless an upright spin position could be used in combo spins.

IceAlisa
04-23-2012, 05:36 PM
I've never thought about the layback as breasts in the air. Interesting that you do.

Also, you'd like to see lifts banned in pairs and dance because they can look pretty immodest too, right? :rolleyes:

If the rules should be the same for the ladies and the men, should the ladies be required a 3 axel, a quad and 3/3? Let's make it equal all the way.

Nadya
04-23-2012, 06:32 PM
Great idea this.

Spirals can be very impressive when performed to a Czisny standard but in most cases... :scream:

Hmm. I actually dislike her spiral. The height is great but the way it sticks out to the side instead of right behind her is weird. Like a handle on a device that got loose or something.

kwanfan1818
04-23-2012, 07:07 PM
I've never thought about the layback as breasts in the air. Interesting that you do.
I was looking at programs to see what required elements might be considered immodest in a Middle Eastern culture to see if there was an alternative, and that was one of the ones I though would catch a censor's eye.


Also, you'd like to see lifts banned in pairs and dance because they can look pretty immodest too, right? :rolleyes:
I'm not sure why you think that I think elements should be banned. :confused: In the Moves in the Field proposal, it's an alternative.

I hadn't looked at Pairs to see if there's an alternative to required elements, because the biggest obstacle for Pairs and Dance would be a man and woman touching in public, which eliminates all required elements except the SBS jumps and spins in Pairs and non-touching FW in Dance.


If the rules should be the same for the ladies and the men, should the ladies be required a 3 axel, a quad and 3/3? Let's make it equal all the way.
There's no requirement in Men's competition for a 3A, 3/3, or quad anywhere :confused: Men can do 2A or 3A and 3/2 or 2/3 as the combo in the SP, just like Ladies. Ladies can't do quads in the SP, but men are by no means required to, or most of the field in Nice would have received minimal credit for their solo jumps and combos. Among those Men in Nice who did 2A in the SP were Kevin Van der Perren. Gachinski was slammed in Nice for doing a 2/2, not a 3/2.

Practically speaking, a Ladies skater would not be competitive without a 3/3, 3A, and quad, but that's only if she is competing against men directly, not in the Ladies event.

I do think that Ladies shouldn't be forced to do layback spins or spirals, and that they should have the same choices in spins and steps as men. Even without the proposed Moves in the Field element, I think Ladies should be able to do another kind of spin in place of the layback spin and two different step sequences in lieu of the spiral.

I'm fairly certain the MIF proposal is not to accommodate a skater from UAE.

IceAlisa
04-23-2012, 07:24 PM
I am not talking about accommodating a skater from anywhere, but about suggestions to eliminate requirements that have long been highlights of the sport. They showcase a skater's flexibility, control of the blade in COE spiral and mastery of complex positions during a spin (you have to demonstrate several for x number of revolutions to get a high level).

Yes, men are not technically required to do the complex jumps but you and I know that they have to, the expectation is absolutely there. Try winning an event or even medaling doing only what's technically required by the written rules.

There cannot be equality in what's accepted and expected from men and ladies competitors. So since the ladies are not expected (really, not required) to do the quad, etc, they can demonstrate their mastery of the sport by doing the very elements you want eliminated, the layback, the spiral, etc.

Kudos to Zhara for doing the catchfoot spiral and doing it well.

gkelly
04-23-2012, 07:28 PM
Practically speaking, a Ladies skater would not be competitive without a 3/3, 3A, and quad, but that's only if she is competing against men directly, not in the Ladies event.

Right. :)
I've thought that it would be interesting to have a coed competition using pre-2010 ladies' short program rules only. Required layback and spiral sequence, required solo double axel and no quads allowed. Oh, but I'd use the 1.0 and not 0.8 factor for the program components. That should level the playing field enough that, e.g., 2010 Yuna Kim probably could have made top three without a triple axel.


I do think that Ladies shouldn't be forced to do layback spins or spirals, and that they should have the same choices in spins and steps as men. Even without the proposed Moves in the Field element, I think Ladies should be able to do another kind of spin in place of the layback spin and two different step sequences in lieu of the spiral.


Me too, at least in the free program. I've said for years I want to see both men and women have the option of second step sequence OR spiral sequence OR field moves sequence in the free program.

Both sexes already have their choice of spin in one position in the free program. It's only the short program that requires layback for women and change-foot sit or camel or men.

If the SP is about required skills, perhaps the required solo spin position should alternate every year, as is already the case for junior men.


I'm fairly certain the MIF proposal is not to accommodate a skater from UAE.

Obviously.