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Primorskaya
04-28-2012, 10:10 AM
For comparison purposes, I went fishing for the first (I think?) outing of Artur's LP back in september 2011, this is what it looked like at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cSXro8_FDg&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LL7-Y0Hfy36ycJdaKPBfdQEg

They tinkered with the layout and timing, but mostly it's pretty obvious a lot of choreographic detail went out the window as the season progressed. Maybe this is also the lack of competition pressure, but I find his skating here really fluid, involved and more enjoyable than I've seen him all season.
Watering down the choreo didn't help him any, and that's the silly thing: having less artistic content doesn't make you more able to land jumps if you have the stamina (mental and physical) and confidence to do both.
And I too really liked both programmes this season, really hope he doesn't get some blah-vanilla stuff out of Wilson, that's not for him.
Same goes for Liza, I really don't want to see some cutesy-princessy choreo and music for her, she can carry something more unusual.

misskarne
04-28-2012, 01:50 PM
For comparison purposes, I went fishing for the first (I think?) outing of Artur's LP back in september 2011, this is what it looked like at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cSXro8_FDg&feature=my_liked_videos&list=LL7-Y0Hfy36ycJdaKPBfdQEg

They tinkered with the layout and timing, but mostly it's pretty obvious a lot of choreographic detail went out the window as the season progressed. Maybe this is also the lack of competition pressure, but I find his skating here really fluid, involved and more enjoyable than I've seen him all season.
Watering down the choreo didn't help him any, and that's the silly thing: having less artistic content doesn't make you more able to land jumps if you have the stamina (mental and physical) and confidence to do both.
And I too really liked both programmes this season, really hope he doesn't get some blah-vanilla stuff out of Wilson, that's not for him.
Same goes for Liza, I really don't want to see some cutesy-princessy choreo and music for her, she can carry something more unusual.

I disagree with the bolded point. I think it did help in a way. Artur was dead on his feet less than two minutes into that program. Now whether that was a lack of match-fitness, or he was sick, or other factors came into play I don't know, but at the end of the day there's no point having something you can't skate to.

I think the watered-down Demon program held its storyline and quite a bit of its choreo quite well. And, importantly, it allowed Artur to skate through the whole program. That would have been a boost to his confidence, and I think he's ready for the challenge now of doing something similar to this in a full scale. If his body finishes developing this summer, he should be in fine stead for next season. (I think he's still developing anyway - he sure looks different here to in Euros. Across the chest, mostly.)

Now, to add to that, here is the original version of the SP to St Louis Blues as presented in the Moskvina show in October 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJYM7JxwBZw

I think the final layout (which has a different music cut) worked better (the layout of the spins in this version is :yikes: IMO, and the music cut gives me the heebie-jeebies in places), but I do love the circular steps here and the transitions as well. They just adjusted the final-version ones for the different music cut. This is a very playful program and I'd like to see this version retained at least as his ex.

I think even "watered down" this SP held the choreo a lot better, and a lot more of it.

I suppose the ironic part is if he'd kept this version a lot of people would have started bashing him for the hip-circles without looking at anything else... :rolleyes: (FYI, I think he does them better than Plushenko...a little rounder, a little slower, and er...I had to refrain from jumping through my computer screen :grope:)


And a last note: Can Artur do a split jump, do you think? I was watching Farris and Brown's LPs from Jr Worlds the other day and they both have really beautiful split jumps, I think it would be a lovely choreographic element that he could pull off with a lot of flair - if he can do it. What can I say, I'm a sucker for men with nice split jumps. /random

caseyedwards
04-28-2012, 08:25 PM
This conversation is kind of going on in three threads but with Choreo and Mishin students you will have by the end of the season people divided between bad choreo and no choreo. That's just the way things have been for years!!

Primorskaya
04-28-2012, 10:47 PM
I think he's ready for the challenge now of doing something similar to this in a full scale

Me too. We're kind of in agreement I guess, only I thought he was ready for it this past season, and it turned out to be very up and down.

here is the original version of the SP to St Louis Blues

There's an even earlier one, from the same presentation as the LP one I posted, I think it's very similar to this, but I can't find it anywhere, it might have been taken off YT...

Agreed on the dodgy spin placement and better choreo "retention" (weird phrase, don't know how else to put it!) in the SP.

No idea if he can do a split jump, but I'd like to see that too. Farris and Brown really own theirs, and Rippon does it really well too. Funny how the Russian splits seems to be a very American move at the moment!

As for the hip gyration, well, I have no problem with that, nor with the spread-eagle-into-3A in close-up. And as people will call him a Plushy clone no matter what...

This conversation is kind of going on in three threads but with Choreo and Mishin students you will have by the end of the season people divided between bad choreo and no choreo. That's just the way things have been for years!!

Which doesn't mean that it can't change. I may be wrong but it seems to me that having any kind of external input, especially from non-Russian choreographers, into his skater's programmes, is a recent development for Mishin and I'm glad he keeps going in that direction.

Oh and, I failed at multi-quoting your posts, sorry guys!

Macassar88
05-02-2012, 06:18 AM
http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120427/593847873.html
Don't know if it has been posted yet.

Basically, Zhulin will try to fix their technical issues.
I can't read Russian and Google Translate is not helping

leapfrogonice
05-02-2012, 06:35 AM
I thought Zhulin was going to start by fixing their hair. Wasn't it their hair? Or something really substantive like that in the first press release? Yeah, it was definitely HAIR. Go fix their hair.

Jeschke
05-02-2012, 06:52 AM
http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120427/593847873.html
Don't know if it has been posted yet.

Basically, Zhulin will try to fix their technical issues.
I can't read Russian and Google Translate is not helping

was an interview with staviski, nothing special.

bob/sol started working with zhulin, are thankful to theri former coachs.

the face to face-challenge with monko/khaliavin in practice will challenge both teams but will move them ahead.

he likes ria/tka going to shpilband /zueva, cause they have everything, but looking somkind old-fashioned.

some words about ili/kat. sounds not so nice. they feel like champs after their 5th place at worlds and absolutely russian number 1, but stavisky mentioned that next season, the battle for russian number one will start again, with all pairs (the 4 mentioned above) at equal level.

letīs see :D

winterchik
05-02-2012, 09:32 AM
http://www.rsport.ru/figure_skating/20120427/593847873.html
Don't know if it has been posted yet.

Basically, Zhulin will try to fix their technical issues.
I can't read Russian and Google Translate is not helping
Looks like Zhulin fixed all B/S technical issues in a short week..so he decide to give himself a holiday, in Greece just next door to where Kustarova is holiday....or life is so :Dmuch FUN

lauravvv
05-02-2012, 02:05 PM
Looks like Zhulin fixed all B/S technical issues in a short week..so he decide to give himself a holiday, in Greece just next door to where Kustarova is holiday....or life is so :Dmuch FUNIf I remember correctly, in another interview (that was posted somewhere in this thread) Zhulin said that he is going to start all the serious work with Bobrova/Soloviev after his vacation.


was an interview with staviski, nothing special.Thank you. What seems noteworthy to me is that Staviski talked about their posture problems - he also thinks that Zhulin is trying to fix that.

caseyedwards
05-02-2012, 05:58 PM
Are B/S also taking a end of season vacation-situation could look better

Macassar88
05-02-2012, 06:09 PM
Are B/S also taking a end of season vacation-situation could look better

What's wrong with an end of season vacation? Dimitri has a family that he probably wants to spend time with, and both of their bodies would probably benefit from some rest after a pretty long season.

caseyedwards
05-02-2012, 06:18 PM
What's wrong with an end of season vacation? Dimitri has a family that he probably wants to spend time with, and both of their bodies would probably benefit from some rest after a pretty long season.


Notihng! If they are it is fine. Just dont want them waiting around for Zhulin to return

AKISIN
05-07-2012, 02:52 PM
I'm not sure, but according to the Russian forums, Artem Grigoriev retired from competitive skating.

Eislauffan
05-07-2012, 03:16 PM
I'm not sure, but according to the Russian forums, Artem Grigoriev retired from competitive skating.

Sad but not surprising. I heard that some Russian men were going to retire, didn't know the names yet, but I thought that he could be one of them. I'll be in Moscow soon and will try to gather some news.

Macassar88
05-07-2012, 05:46 PM
http://www.sports.ru/others/figure-skating/140597419.html
Apparently Zhulin is considering moving to America