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Zemgirl
05-03-2012, 06:20 PM
I have recieved two interesting updated information regarding ISU Grand Prix assingments for 2012:

- it would be no longer the possibility of 3 events for Top 6 from Worlds

That sets up an interesting decision for the French and Japanese federations re the seeded men's assignments.

Sylvia
05-03-2012, 06:28 PM
Here's a list of the pair teams that didn't finish in the top 12 at 2012 Worlds, but are guaranteed one spot (based on this season's GP selection criteria) for finishing top 24 on World Rankings and/or top 24 on the Seasons Best list (known splits teams have been removed):

Zhang/Zhang CHN (if they continue)
Moore-Towers/Moscovitch CAN
Stolbova/Klimov RUS
Yu/Jin CHN (JGP age-eligible)
Lawrence/Swiegers CAN
Vise/Baldwin USA
Vartmann/Van Cleave GER
Davankova/Deputat RUS (JGP age-eligible)
James/Cipres FRA
Hausch/Wende GER
Gerboldt/Enbert RUS
Dong/Wu CHN
Kemp/King GBR
Total: 13

Top 12 at Worlds: Savchenko/Szolkowy GER, Volosozhar/Trankov RUS, Takahashi/Tran JPN, Pang/Tong CHN, Duhamel/Radford CAN, Bazarova/Larionov RUS, Kavaguti/Smirnov RUS, Denney/Coughlin USA, Sui/Han CHN, Marley/Brubaker USA, Berton/Hotarek ITA, Dube/Wolfe CAN.

RUS: up to 6 teams
CHN: up to 5
CAN: 4
USA & GER: 3

There are 48 GP slots for pairs (8 per GP). USA, CAN, CHN, and RUS will use all 3 of their host slots while FRA may or may not; JPN is expected to only use 1 again.

sammyf
05-03-2012, 10:14 PM
I've seen May 19, and I've seen not until the ISU Congress in June. Which is correct? Knowing the ISU, the answer is 'both'.

How can they do the GP before the congress? If the congress changes it so that 14 year olds can no longer be on the GP that should be decided before they give them out.

PinkFeathers
05-03-2012, 10:22 PM
Edit - NM

Jammers
05-03-2012, 11:53 PM
I think the ISU needs to be consistent. The fact that a 15 year old Mao couldn't skate at the Olympics or Worlds in 2006 but 14 year old Caroline Zhang could skate against the top Senior Ladies on the Senior GP in 2007 was nonsense. I though the whole age limit thing was to keep the 13,14 year olds from competing against the big girls and not rush them into doing the harder technical programs that Seniors have to do.

Sylvia
05-04-2012, 06:26 PM
I've seen May 19, and I've seen not until the ISU Congress in June. Which is correct?
Looks like the former.

"The list of athlete entries for the 2012 ISU Grand Prix of Figure Skating Series will be announced on May 21, 2012."

Source is the 2012 Skate America (Kent, Washington) website, launched today: http://www.2012skateamerica.com/

kwanfan1818
05-05-2012, 12:49 AM
I posted this in the Paul/Islam thread, trying to see what the prospects were for them for a GP assignment, and came up with some data from last year in dance, which Sylvia asked me to re-post here. I've also looked at the other disciplines, and this is what I've come up with:

DANCE:
Last season:

In the Top 12 at Worlds, there were two splits (C/P and C/Z); they got one of those spots back from the alternates list (for Chock). (Two more alternate slots came from the S/B split.)
In the Top 24 SB and/or Top 24 WS, there were two retirements (K/K and F/S) before GP selection and one Jr. Team
In the Top 24 SB, there were nine active senior teams guaranteed one:
Two received two on initial selection (M/K [non-host] and R/T [one host])
Two received one on initial selection and then a TBD host (P/G, R/R)
Two got one and then an alternates pick (P/I and T/S).
Two got one and then split/retired (H/Z [would have been top for a subs pick] and M/N)
Lichtman/Copely were the only 13-24 SB team competing last season with one.
There was no team that got one that was only a host pick.
In the Top 24 WS, but not Top 24 SB, H/Z got one and then a TBD host pick.
In the Top 75, Cannuscio/Lorello were assigned a TBD host pick to SA, and Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt were the only team from the Top 75 to be assigned to a non-host pick.
Of those selected from the alternates list, two were Top 24 SB, and four were from the split couples list.
There were two split couples last year that got three assignments (one each for Samuelson and Bates from two seasons prior, one for Chock.)
No replacement for P/B at Skate Canada.


This season:

Top 12 have no splits or retirements, at least so far.
Top 24 SB have five possible Jr. couples (Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Stepanova/Bukin, Yanovskaya/Mozgov, Aldridge/Eaton, Nazarova/Nikitin)
Top 24 WS but not Top 24 SB or Top 12 Worlds, guaranteed one,

Five Four* this year vs. seven last year. (Yu/Wang will meet the GP minimum by just a few points, although they are ranked 20th in the WS).
*Bonascorsi/Mager (WS 24) have split (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3560898&postcount=11).

At this point, it looks like Poirier will get one off the alternates list.* (If there was news of a Crone partnership, I missed it.)
There are two extra slots for dance teams this year, if teams (P/B and WP) can't be selected for three.


PAIRS:
Last season:

In the Top 12 at Worlds, there was one split (Y/C); they got one of those spots back from the alternates list for D/C; the other was for D/B's 7th in 2010.
Two Top 6 at Worlds teams did were selected for three (S/S and K/S)
In the Top 24 SB and/or Top 24 WS, there were three retirements/splits (B/M, S/M, DM/K) before the GP selection.
In the Top 24 SB, there were eight active teams guaranteed one:

One got two in the initial selection (I/M, non-host)
Two got one and later a host TBD (S/K and S/H)
Five got one (L/S, G/E, Z/W, and M/B got host picks; C/S got NHK)

In the Top 24 WS but not Top 24 SB

One got one in the initial selection and were a replacement host pick (Y/J)
Six got one; five were from host nations but didn't get host picks

Four teams in the Top 75 got spots

One host pick only (C/B), withdrew and replaced
One initial assignment and one host pick replacement (Y/J)
Two non-host pick assignments (S/S and P/S)

Everyone in Pairs was Top 75, but only 33 met the GP minimum score.
There were eight spots filled by replacements:

Two spots each for D/C and D/W (one split couple spot each for Denney/Barrett, Yankowskas/Coughlin -- also to replace a host spot -- and Dube/Davison, and one host pick for Dube/Wolfe) from the alternates list
The rest were host pick replacements.



This season:

Top 12 at Worlds: no retirements or splits so far
Top 24 SB and/or Top 24 WS:

FourFive confirmed (E/L, I/M), heavily rumored (Z/Z, B/B), and rumored (V/B) splits
One known Junior Team (D/D). No ISU bio, but I don't think she's age-eligible for GP even if they don't change the age limits.
Tricky is if they don't let Juniors who've done Senior GP compete in Junior championships. Yu/Jin have competed both and might have to do Seniors, even though they were born in 1996 and 1994.
Seven guaranteed teams (including Y/J) for Top 24 SB vs. eight last season. when juniors could do both.
FiveFour teams in Top 24 WS only vs. five teams last season, with four competing, since K/K didn't have the GP minimum and either weren't submitted or didn't earn it before GP. K/K (WS 23) should easily make the minimum this year, having increased their SB by 10 points, and Kadlecova/Bidar (WS 22) should make it, because the highest score in 2011-12 was 5+points less than the highest score in 2010-11. K/B have split (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3560898&postcount=11).

"Split Couples"
Known: Yankowskas/Reagan and Davis/Ladwig (if ready)
Rumored: Hao Zhang rumored to be forming a new partnership (if Top 12 Worlds from three seasons back qualifies and they're ready) ETA: The Chinese Fed could give him/new partner a host pick; a TBD replacement wouldn't need a minimum score, and they could hold open their options until close to CoC.

Two more spots open with limit to two GPs; last year S/S and K/S were selected for three each.

kwanfan1818
05-05-2012, 03:05 AM
LADIES:
Last Season:

In the Top 12 at Worlds, two did not compete in GP (Ando, Kim)

Two skaters did three events (Kostner and Leonova)

In the Top 24 SB:

One retired (Meier) and two skated Juniors (Siraj and Lam)
All nine who were guaranteed one got two in the initial selection

In the Top 24 WS only:

Two got two initial selections (Imai and Marchei)
One got one initial selection and then a TBD host pick (Meite)
One got an initial selection (J. Helgesson)

From the Top 75

Five got host picks (Biryukova, Geng, Silete, C. Zhang, Marrocco)
One got one (Lafuente)

From outside the Top 75, where host replacements (including, apparently, replacing a "TBD") don't have to have a minimum GP score, there were four host picks: Zhu (SB 111), and Forte, Desanctis, and Ishikawa (no SB from 2010).
There were only two non-host replacements from the alternates list, both for Lepisto (V. Helgesson at SA and Lafuente at TEB).
There was no replacement for Hecken at TEB.


This season:

Top 12 Worlds: No retirements or announced GP sit-outs
Top 24 SB: At the end of the day, I think five will be juniors (Lipnitskaia, Shelepen, Miyahara, Shoji, and Li) vs. two last season, and five will be seniors (Korobeynikova, K. Zhang, Tukhamysheva, Sotnikova, and Gold). Of course, this could shift, depending on if the new age rules don't pass or Piseev's latest mood.
Top 24 WS (only): This season there are seven vs. four last season.
Two spots are back in the mix, since no skater will be able to do three GPs (Kostner, Leonova).
Ando and Rochette are making Sochi noises, so if not this season, perhaps next year they will take the one-time "Comeback option". (Ando is currently WS 22, but will lose all of her 2010-11 WS points at the end of the season.)


MEN
Last season:

Top 12 Worlds: no sit-outs or retirements

One skater in the Top 6 did three (Brezina)

Top 24 SB

One retired (Bradley), no Juniors
Six received two in the initial selection
Two non-host country skaters received one in the initial selection and a second off the alternates list (Van der Perren and D. Ten)
One host country skater got one in the initial selection and a TBD host pick later (Mahbanoozadeh).

Top 24 WS only:

Two got two in the initial selection (Rogozine and Lysacek, one host spot each)
One got one in the initial selection and later a TBD host spot (Song)
One got one in the initial selection and one from the alternates list (Majorov)
One got one in the initial selection (Schultheis)

Top 75:

One got one in the initial selection and then a TBD host pick (Menshov)
Four got host TBD host picks (Machida, Wu, Guan, Besseghier)

Outside the Top 75:

One Two TBD host picks (Balde and Razzano (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3563285&postcount=115))

Three Two withdrawals not filled with alternates (Lysacek at SA, Joubert at CoC, Schultheiss at NHK).
Three replacements from the alternates list (D. Ten at SA, Van der Perren at SC, and Majorov at TEB)
One spot back in the pool, since no option to skate three (Brezina)


This season:

Top 12 Worlds: No known sit-outs or retirements
Top 24 SB: Three possible juniors -- Yan, Farris, and Brown -- but I can't imagine that China won't want Yan to be in seniors next year. (He should be able to get two spots for Sochi.)
Top 24 WS only: Four vs. five last season.
Comeback skaters: Lysacek would have to use the one-time "Comeback skater" option if he wants two GPs; last season he was WS 18 and guaranteed a spot. For one he'd need an initial host pick plus minimum score at a summer/fall Senior B or a TBD replacement host pick.
Plushenko qualifies for one with the third highest SB of the season.

barbk
05-05-2012, 06:32 AM
Thanks, Kwanfan.

SkateFan66
05-05-2012, 07:23 AM
Three withdrawals not filled with alternates (Lysacek at SA, Joubert at CoC, Schultheiss at NHK).

Razzano replaced Lysacek at SA.

kwanfan1818
05-05-2012, 10:19 AM
Thank you for the correction. I never added him to the bottom of the SB list. (He didn't have one for 2010.)

I'm still able to edit, and I've adjusted the post.

Sylvia
05-05-2012, 01:31 PM
Thanks, kwanfan1818!


One known Junior Team (D/D). No ISU bio, but I don't think she's age-eligible for GP even if they don't change the age limits.
Davankova/Deputat's ISU bio is linked from the 2012 Junior Worlds results page - she just turned 14 this month and he is 19: http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00014058.htm

kwanfan1818
05-05-2012, 06:42 PM
Does that mean under the current rules, she'd be eligible for Senior GP at 14 before this July 1? (Given this newness of this pair, it seems like a moot point.)

There's a proposed rule to keep skaters from returning to Juniors after skating Seniors, but if the age rules don't pass, would that apply to teams who skate GP as 14-year-olds, but can't compete at Senior championships?

Sylvia
05-14-2012, 06:13 PM
Does that mean under the current rules, she'd be eligible for Senior GP at 14 before this July 1? (Given this newness of this pair, it seems like a moot point.)
Yes. Eislauffan posted today that it's likely Davankova/Deputat would do the JGP: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3569775&postcount=147


There's a proposed rule to keep skaters from returning to Juniors after skating Seniors, but if the age rules don't pass, would that apply to teams who skate GP as 14-year-olds, but can't compete at Senior championships?
I doubt it, but who knows?

Leticia
05-15-2012, 10:05 PM
What's the possibility of Joannie, Miki, or Yuna coming back? I'd love to see them competing against upcoming Russian Phenoms, and Gracie..