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allezfred
05-18-2012, 04:27 PM
Plushenko is absolutely going to go to Worlds in Fake London. I can't imagine he'd want to count on any of the other Russian men earning spots for Sochi. :P

ciocio
05-18-2012, 06:03 PM
Absolutely! He has to go. :D


Based on how last year's announcement was phrased, he can't. But he's guaranteed a slot anyway, and I can't imagine he'll want to do more than Rostelecom (if that).

What if they invite him to other GP?:confused:

Cherub721
05-18-2012, 06:21 PM
Since the GPF is in Sochi, I was wondering if Plushy would try to get there and maybe skip nationals or Euros.

I wish that he would do this. Maybe do TEB and CoR. I really don't expect to see him at Worlds in Canada, and he needs to get some experience against the top international guys, not just the European men who are weak right now.

Frankly, if he wants to beat Chan before the Olympics, the Grand Prix is the ideal place to do it. Chan is not an early season skater; he tends to fall 3-4 times in GP competitions. Later season, when Chan is peaking and with worlds in his home, would be a lot more difficult.


Plushenko is absolutely going to go to Worlds in Fake London. I can't imagine he'd want to count on any of the other Russian men earning spots for Sochi. :P

They only need one spot for Sochi. :D If another Russian guy wants to go the Olympics, he can win the spot to 2013 Worlds and place top 10.

NMURA
05-18-2012, 09:34 PM
Nevertheless Plusneko will go to worlds. Canadian men usually don't do well at worlds and Olympics in Canada. Even if he was placed below Chan (who I don't imagine beating Plushenko fair and square), there's a more than perfect excuse.

kwanfan1818
05-19-2012, 12:06 AM
PS: I don't think Plushenko can use the "comeback skater" clause since he did an ISU Championship last season?

Oh, you're right: he was Euro champion last season :duh: and with the third highest SB score, is guaranteed one. (It was Ando who disclosed that she signed the paperwork to come back.)

If he doesn't get two from among those guaranteed one, I don't know who will.

caseyedwards
05-19-2012, 12:40 AM
Russia is in terrible position in men because even if it is Plushenko what if he withdrew? No man places in 2013 worlds is there still an Olympic spot? What if it is 20th (not for Plushenko but someone else)?

Plushenko has been saying he wants a full season. I thought 2012-2013 was going to be a full season based on his statements.

PinkFeathers
05-19-2012, 01:10 AM
Anyone with any inside info on what time to expect the announcement? US morning, Euro morning, whenever the heck they feel like it? :lol:

Cherub721
05-19-2012, 02:47 AM
Russia is in terrible position in men because even if it is Plushenko what if he withdrew? No man places in 2013 worlds is there still an Olympic spot? What if it is 20th (not for Plushenko but someone else)?


If a country doesn't earn a spot at Worlds, there is a b-international in the fall where they will have an opportunity to earn one Olympic spot. And unless something has changed, the host country is always guaranteed one spot in each discipline, and that skater gets to skate in the free even if they don't qualify after the short. So Russia will definitely have at least one men's spot.

misskarne
05-19-2012, 07:40 AM
He will very likely want to do two and qualify for the GPF since it is being held at Sochi Olympics stadium.

Oh, I hadn't thought of this. I was thinking in terms of protecting his body. But this would make sense.


Russia is in terrible position in men because even if it is Plushenko what if he withdrew? No man places in 2013 worlds is there still an Olympic spot? What if it is 20th (not for Plushenko but someone else)?

You're doing Gachinski a massive disservice. He is more than capable of a top 5 at the minimum. They only need a top 10 finish at 2013 Worlds to have two spots for Sochi, yes?

kwanfan1818
05-19-2012, 07:55 AM
You're doing Gachinski a massive disservice. He is more than capable of a top 5 at the minimum. They only need a top 10 finish at 2013 Worlds to have two spots for Sochi, yes?
Yes, and I hope Gachinski skates well this season.


. And unless something has changed, the host country is always guaranteed one spot in each discipline, and that skater gets to skate in the free even if they don't qualify after the short. So Russia will definitely have at least one men's spot.
From the 2010 Special Regulations (downloadable from http://www.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/page/directory/0,10853,4844-153889-171105-nav-list,00.html)

For Singles and Pairs, Rule 400.A.5:


However, in case where the Competitor/Pair of the Host Member went through the normal qualifying procedure and did not qualify under paragraphs 3 [prior WC's] or 4 [Qualifying Competition] above, one Competitor/Pair of the Host Member shall have the right to participate in each discipline (Ladies, Men and Pairs), as Competitor number 30 in the single discipline and as pair number 20 in the pairs’ discipline

400.A.1 states that "In the two singles disciplines the best placed twenty-four (24) Competitors in the Short Program will qualify for the final Free Skating." There's no provision I can find for adding a Host Skater who isn't top 24 after the SP. (There's also no explicit wording for Pairs and Dance.)

For Ice Dance, Rule 400.B.5 (formerly Rule 570.5):


However, in the case where the couple of the Host Member went through the normal qualifying procedure and did not qualify under paragraphs 3 [prior WC's] or 4 [Qualifying Competition] above, one Couple of the Host Member shall have the right to participate in the Ice Dance discipline as Couple number 24.

Similar text to the following didn't appear in 1568, I assume because Canada qualified spots in all disciplines in Moscow, but it did appear in 1313, issued for the Torino Olympics:


In such case the number of skaters/pairs taken from the Senior International Competition designated by the ISU (Karl Schäfer Memorial, October 12-16, 2005, Vienna/Austria) will be reduced (and not the number of skaters/pairs described in paragraph 1 above).

This isn't explicit in the Special Regs, but the maximums are, with no provision to add one, like they do at World Championships before the Free Skate. I believe the provision to have Host Countries have a skater in the Free Skate regardless of whether they qualify normally was dropped within the last few years. I'm not sure if the Host Country skater/team gets added to the SP/SD if there's a prelim round, if s/he/it doesn't qualify that way, or if it's just the first phase.

HisWeirness
05-19-2012, 12:24 PM
Great post, kwanfan1818. I've now saved Comm. 1313 (http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-175154-192372-87601-0-file,00.pdf) to my hard drive! :respec:

For those of you interested in the Russia/Olympic Spots/Host Country topic, it was also discussed in the From Russia with Love thread last month:

http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3537707&postcount=798

When it comes to Olympic spots questions, Rule 400 is your friend!! :saint:



This isn't explicit in the Special Regs, but the maximums are, with no provision to add one, like they do at World Championships before the Free Skate. I believe the provision to have Host Countries have a skater in the Free Skate regardless of whether they qualify normally was dropped within the last few years. I'm not sure if the Host Country skater/team gets added to the SP/SD if there's a prelim round, if s/he/it doesn't qualify that way, or if it's just the first phase.

Right, the rule for ISU Championships is as follows (from 2010 Figure Skating Rule 378.8, italics added by me):

In case the Competitor(s) of the Host Member went through the normal qualifying procedure and did not qualify for the first segment of a Championships/discipline according to paragraphs 5 (Direct Entries) or 6 (Prelim Round) above, one Competitor of the Host Member shall have the right to additionally enter and participate in each discipline (Ladies, Men, Pair Skating and Ice Dance), provided the Host Member Competitor(s) fulfils the Minimum Score requirements according to paragraph 3 above. This competitor will have the starting number one (1) and in Single Skating the first warm up group will be exceeded with one (1) Skater; in Pair Skating and Ice Dance, if necessary, the first warm up group will be divided into two subgroups with a separate warm-up for each of them.

In the 2008 Figure Skating Rules, ISU Championships – Special Technical Rules, Rule 579.6 stated:

For the starting order in the Free Skating, when the Host Member’s Competitor is placed among the twenty-four (24) best placed Competitors in the Short Program, he will be drawn in the warm-up group according to the placing. If no Competitors of the Host Member qualified for the Free Skating, one (best placed in the Short Program) Competitor of the Host Member will have the right to participate in the Free Skating as Competitor twenty-five (25) with starting number one (1) and this warm-up group will be exceeded with one (1) Competitor.
In the case no pairs of the Host Member qualified for the Free Skating, one (best placed in the Short Program) pair shall have the right to participate as pair number twenty-one (21) with starting number one (1). The corresponding warm-up group will be divided into two (2) subgroups with a separate warm-up for each of them.

The infamous* Communication 1562 (http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1439), Cost Savings at ISU Events, May 2009, eliminated the provision from 579.6 quoted above as of the 2009/10 season. So, that is why many fans are still confused about this rule because it has changed within the last few seasons. :COP:

*this is the communication that first cut the number of skaters making the FS at Euros/4CCs and introduced the splitting of the free skate into two sessions, with the first FS group skating in an afternoon session and the rest of the groups in the evening session. The split session FS was dropped from the rules after the 2009/10 season. The split session provision did not apply to the 2010 Winter Olympic Games.

TwizzlerS
05-19-2012, 02:01 PM
Thinking ahead a bit: I wonder if Korea has a dance or pairs team.

Sylvia
05-19-2012, 03:13 PM
Technically Evan wasn't a "comeback", I don't think. He was a host pick and was in the top 24 in the World Rankings so he was also selected by another country. So technically this would not have applied to him at the time.
I've heard conflicting information regarding whether or not last year is being counted officially as a "comeback" for Lysacek, even though he later withdrew from his 2 GP assignments. I wonder if he can or will be listed initially as a host pick for Skate America (or fill a TBA slot there?), but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

SkateFan66
05-19-2012, 04:26 PM
I've heard conflicting information regarding whether or not last year is being counted officially as a "comeback" for Lysacek, even though he later withdrew from his 2 GP assignments. I wonder if he can or will be listed initially as a host pick for Skate America (or fill a TBA slot there?), but we'll have to wait and see what happens.

If the ISU wants to count last season as a comebcak season, I hope that Lysacek challenges the decision. Based on ISU rank, Lysacek qualified for one assignment plus a host pick. I could be argued, quite convincingly in a legal proceeding, that that is what he got..SA & TEB.

kwanfan1818
05-19-2012, 04:49 PM
Right, the rule for ISU Championships is as follows (from 2010 Figure Skating Rule 378.8, italics added by me):

Thank you so much for this -- I think I passed this in a blur last night :)