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npavel
04-16-2012, 11:12 AM
I have no problem with texting. In fact, not every competition is televised (at least not live) and there are people home waiting for how the competition goes. So thank you to all of you who text out or tweet so we can be part of the event.
On the other hand it doesn't disturb the competition. People who cheer is really a positive note.
It's bothering if people around try to find fowls in each skater or made so much noise with food and exchange of that so you can only see people in front of you instead of the skater

Aussie Willy
04-16-2012, 11:52 AM
The announcers don't tell people not to belch or fart either. Doesn't mean they are acceptable things to be done in public though does it?;)
Oh I don't know. It would make a very interesting competition as every skater fell over that the audience farted in unison.

RD
04-16-2012, 04:26 PM
Probably a good thing I've never been to a competition...honestly, it wouldn't even have occurred to me to treat it like I would treat attending a show. At the baseball and basketball games I've been to, people get up and walk around all the time- during gameplay as well as during timeouts. I mean, as long as you're not blocking people's view for an extended period of time (i.e. not just trying to get past)...and of course, people are free to talk as they please.

agalisgv
04-16-2012, 04:38 PM
There aren't very many other sports where people in the crowd are knitting or are throwing stuffed toys and flowers at the competitiors. I tend to see that as reflective of skating fans being largely middle-aged suburbanite women. And that rather goes back to my point--certain demographics of fans may want figure skating to more resemble a proper outing to the Met. Such people are more likely to to follow figure skating and Broadway/ballet productions as opposed to figure skating and the NBA playoffs. So some want figure skating competitions to be conducted like an evening at the opera.

But it seems most of the complaints regarding audience behavior is directed towards audience members who don't fit that same middle-aged female suburbanite sensibility. The criticisms have generally been directed at skaters sitting in the stands and more occasional fans. But skaters tend to be much younger, and occasional fans are more likely to compare figure skating competitions with other sports events rather than the opera.

IMO, hardcore skating fans tend to assume they make up the bulk of viewers, but I don't think that's the case by a long-shot. So you have a vocal minority (people who want absolute silence at comps) of a vocal minority (hardcore skating fans) trying to enforce their personal preferences on larger audiences, without ever considering that perhaps their preferences have no more validity than those of the other viewers present.

Personally I don't see it as a big issue because as lowthelore noted, the music is generally played so loud, it's not like you can't still hear it despite others talking. Course, by playing the music loudly, people have to talk louder to be heard by those sitting next to them, so there's a bit of a Catch-22 in all of it.

Anyhow, I'm not a big talker personally at comps. But I do think some folk tend to look for ways to be offended, and when you start policing things like chewing gum, I tend to think the problem lies more with the person experiencing constant offense than the gum-chewer :shrug:.

allezfred
04-16-2012, 04:51 PM
I tend to see that as reflective of skating fans being largely middle-aged suburbanite women.

That may be the case in North America, but the demographic is different in Europe and very much so in Asia and yet the etiquette is the same.


IMO, hardcore skating fans tend to assume they make up the bulk of viewers, but I don't think that's the case by a long-shot.

Then who do you think is paying 700 euros for an all-event ticket to see Worlds? Because I think you'll find it's not casual skating fans. :lol:

Rock2
04-16-2012, 06:05 PM
There is a difference between people who talk LOUDLY through the ENTIRE performance...and those who whisper to their friend as much as they like.



There is a difference between eating like a HUMAN BEING...and taking a big friggin' scoop of poutine, shovelling it into my mouth and then moving my face three inches from yours while chomping away on said poutine in your face. SCHLURP, GLOMP, SHMACK!!! (Point being that you don't need to make everyone in your section aware that yes indeed, your ARE in fact eating - whether it be popping bubble gum or whatever else.)

Word. Why is 'whispering' a lost art? Or is it actually a skill you have to learn to do!??!?

So aside from the clear situations of classless fans it does come down a lot to the fact that a % of audience (whatever it is) watches as a sport and a % watches as a show or art performance. So there is going to be that rub.

I'm somewhere in between. I talk during performances but (I think) I keep it low and to a minimum....and then babble waiting for the marks. It does bug me a little when people talk loud and non stop....especially when it's about something other than what's happening in the arena.

nubka
04-16-2012, 06:20 PM
I told a guy chewing guy sitting behind me at Worlds in 98 to close his mouth. I got thanked by most people sitting around me.

What's a "guy chewing guy?" :D

BreakfastClub
04-16-2012, 06:22 PM
I'm going to take this thread as an opportunity to bitch about what I think is one of the worst features CoP has inflicted upon us - LOUD POP MUSIC IN THE ARENA IN BETWEEN SKATERS WHILE WAITING FOR MARKS. There. I shouted it!

I'm a hardcore fan, usually there with a vocal gang and I've been accused a lot in the past of talking to much (ok, scolded ;)) and have mostly reformed. The best alternative is to chatter at length after each skate.

TPTB have decided that the audience needs to be distracted from the long wait times to get marks under CoP :rolleyes: so they now require the arena to play music - often loudly, and Canada and the US are the worst volume offenders - from the second the skater steps off the ice until the second before the marks are announced.

Makes it hard to talk about the performance immediately afterwards - which to me is critical to attendance and being a fan. And I also find it really overstimulating. I like the quiet in between skaters to socialize, discuss and think. I don't need the Weather Girls or Adele or KT Tunstall blaring "Suddenly I See... !" while I'm trying to discuss with my friend sitting 3 seats away if Ashley fully rotated her flip or not. :slinkaway

agalisgv
04-16-2012, 07:11 PM
Then who do you think is paying 700 euros for an all-event ticket to see Worlds? Because I think you'll find it's not casual skating fans. :lol: You seriously think the majority of audience members are paying 700 euros/1000 dollars for all-event tickets?

Many businesses purchase bulk tickets and make them available to employees. A lot of those tickets go unused, and is one reason why you have large pockets of unused seats in the lower arena. Then you have people buy tickets for one event, and that's it.

I'm sure the dynamics will vary in different regions, though.

allezfred
04-16-2012, 07:47 PM
You seriously think the majority of audience members are paying 700 euros/1000 dollars for all-event tickets?

At ISU championships not a majority, but a significant number. In most cases it is much better value than buying individual tickets. But even those buying individual tickets would more likely than not be classified as hardcore skating fans by the very fact that they are attending a skating competition. ;)


Many businesses purchase bulk tickets and make them available to employees. A lot of those tickets go unused, and is one reason why you have large pockets of unused seats in the lower arena.

Well, at least they aren't talking through the programmes and annoying people. ;)

Fact of the matter is that figure skating is a fairly genteel and polite sport and you can opine that it shouldn't matter that people have a chat during someone's skate, but it's not the done thing. If you don't think so then you obviously haven't been to many skating events. :)

agalisgv
04-16-2012, 08:27 PM
At ISU championships not a majority, but a significant number. It's a significant number if the audience turnout is low. In a full arena, it's a pretty small minority.
In most cases it is much better value than buying individual tickets. Only if you are going to attend everything. But that's the point--most people aren't up to doing that, and thus only buy tickets for one or two events (at most).
But even those buying individual tickets would more likely than not be classified as hardcore skating fans by the very fact that they are attending a skating competition. ;) Under that logic, everyone who attends a baseball game would be a hardcore fan since who else would attend?

I think the flawed reasoning in that is rather obvious.
Fact of the matter is that figure skating is a fairly genteel and polite sport Certainly fifty years ago, it was commonplace to see audience members sporting fur coats and the like. But it has been an intentional effort for quite some time now to move figure skating away from the upper crust to more mainstream audiences. And as that happens, you see less fur coats, and more casual fans with less expectations of gentility.

There's a reason loud pop music is played throughout competitions--to make the sport more entertaining for casual fans.

Now, you may bemoan the masses sullying the precious audiences of figure skating competitions with their lack of proper gentility :drama:, but times change and it is what it is. If figure skating is to be seen as a sport, then it will have to make some accommodations with the larger worlds of sports--including general sports fans (gauche as they may seem to others).

;)

ETA: All sarcasm aside, I think Rock2 got it right:
it does come down a lot to the fact that a % of audience (whatever it is) watches as a sport and a % watches as a show or art performance. So there is going to be that rub.

acraven
04-16-2012, 09:59 PM
I'm going to take this thread as an opportunity to bitch about what I think is one of the worst features CoP has inflicted upon us - LOUD POP MUSIC IN THE ARENA IN BETWEEN SKATERS WHILE WAITING FOR MARKS. ...

Makes it hard to talk about the performance immediately afterwards - which to me is critical to attendance and being a fan.

I completely agree. And it's not just between skaters; the music blasts during Zamboni breaks and 6-minute warmups as well. I now make it a point to complain about the noise level (which is often borderline physically painful to me) at the USFS booth early in the week, and I try to speak to the organizing committee for the next year's Nationals, just to point out that fans like to be able to converse with their seatmates. It's clear that they aren't going to eliminate the background music, but a concerted effort by attendees might get the volume lowered.

Aussie Willy
04-16-2012, 11:12 PM
What's a "guy chewing guy?" :D
:lol: I meant "gum chewing guy". Although reading it that way now does have a different meaning.

Bournekraatzfan
04-17-2012, 12:55 AM
I tend to see that as reflective of skating fans being largely middle-aged suburbanite women. And that rather goes back to my point--certain demographics of fans may want figure skating to more resemble a proper outing to the Met. Such people are more likely to to follow figure skating and Broadway/ballet productions as opposed to figure skating and the NBA playoffs. So some want figure skating competitions to be conducted like an evening at the opera.

But it seems most of the complaints regarding audience behavior is directed towards audience members who don't fit that same middle-aged female suburbanite sensibility. The criticisms have generally been directed at skaters sitting in the stands and more occasional fans. But skaters tend to be much younger, and occasional fans are more likely to compare figure skating competitions with other sports events rather than the opera.

IMO, hardcore skating fans tend to assume they make up the bulk of viewers, but I don't think that's the case by a long-shot. So you have a vocal minority (people who want absolute silence at comps) of a vocal minority (hardcore skating fans) trying to enforce their personal preferences on larger audiences, without ever considering that perhaps their preferences have no more validity than those of the other viewers present.

Personally I don't see it as a big issue because as lowthelore noted, the music is generally played so loud, it's not like you can't still hear it despite others talking. Course, by playing the music loudly, people have to talk louder to be heard by those sitting next to them, so there's a bit of a Catch-22 in all of it.

Anyhow, I'm not a big talker personally at comps. But I do think some folk tend to look for ways to be offended, and when you start policing things like chewing gum, I tend to think the problem lies more with the person experiencing constant offense than the gum-chewer :shrug:.

I think you make some valid points and I don't think our viewpoints are all that dissimilar. Let me clarify my views on the matter.

Okay, positionality is important, so I should say that I am speaking as a 20-something woman who enjoys many sports (including basketball) but none as much as figure skating. I would identify as a hard-core fan, though a hard-core fan who still pays tuition, so I cannot afford all-event tickets.

I think we have to be careful about making generalizations about a particular demographic as similarities in age and social class do not necessarily translate to similar views and preferences.

One point I was trying to make in my earlier post is that most people who have expressed concern over these behaviours in this thread do not seem to be asking for absolute silence. This has been explicitly stated by some. We just want people to refrain from talking LOUDLY or doing anything that makes excessive noise during the actual performances (I am perfectly fine with people talking softly or using electronic devices that do not make loud beeping or ringing noises such that those around them can't hear the music properly or focus on what is going on on the ice). And I am fine with people being noisy between performances. As I said before, the performances are so short and the breaks so frequent that I hardly see this as an unreasonable request. And we are not just thinking of ourselves here--some of us have pointed out that we find it disrespectful to the skaters who are performing at the time. If a significant number of people talked throughout a performance, that noise would become audible on the ice. Can you imagine how that skater would feel, not to mention how distracting it might be for him/her/them? This is another reason why I hope this doesn't become more common.

I also want to point out that it is gum-smacking, not gum-chewing, that has been identified as an annoying behaviour. I have not had anyone do this at an event I attended, but I know that sound can be very loud and distracting (again, during a performance). I am hardly the type to get offended easily, nor do I perceive my way of doing things as the way of doing things, but one could say that about someone who is affronted when asked to refrain from loud and distracting behaviour during an actual performance. I think we should all try to be considerate of those around us when we are in public. And since we are at a skating event, I think it is reasonable to expect that the people attending would like to pay attention to the skating.

I agree that we all have different ideas about and understandings of etiquette, and some people do like to impose their ideas on others. But that could be said about any rule, law, or expectation about behaviour. We will never agree completely on the terms, but hopefully we can compromise enough so that we can all coexist peacefully, and in this case, enjoy the event :)

Bournekraatzfan
04-17-2012, 01:02 AM
:lol: I meant "gum chewing guy". Although reading it that way now does have a different meaning.

yes, I would find a guy-chewing guy very distracting too:)