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View Full Version : Davis and White #13 - Even Daisuke is a fan



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jobelle
08-09-2012, 05:05 PM
CB?

Perhaps Carmina Burana?

Bournekraatzfan
08-09-2012, 08:47 PM
:rofl:

Perhaps it is the other way around? Maybe they are strangers in the night and then end up dancing cheek to cheek? Or perhaps they break up dramatically and find out they never really knew each other in the first place.

well that's not very uplifting, now is it?;) I have heard some beautiful orchestral versions of this piece, my favourite being the one by 101 Strings Orchestra. Do we know if they will use the Sinatra version, with lyrics? I am really looking forward to this FD!


I'm confused by why anyone, both in this thread and in the V&M thread, would assume that Meryl and Charlie have any intention of actually doing a ballet SD. The SD is a Polka. It's not going to look anything like Elena and Nikita's FD two years ago where their theme was to actually have an FD that resembled a ballet. The dance will be a Polka/March. They'll do the YP (which they are adorable at) and then a Polka/March. I really doubt that the music they are dancing to happening to be from a ballet will hurt them. It would be an awfully large intuitive leap for people to go from Meryl and Charlie doing a Polka to Meryl and Charlie's Polka music happens to have been originally written for a ballet to some of these other couples, who are also doing Polkas, are more trained in ballet so lets compare these teams doing Polkas on the strength of their ballet skills. They'll always be heavily compared to Tessa and Scott, that's unavoidable, but I just think it's a little much to assume they will be compared to Tessa and Scott even more than usual and specifically on ballet skills because the music they are using happens to be written for the ballet.

(Sorry for the rant, this has been bothering me all day) I think Giselle will be adorable. I feel like the Polka is just such a fabulous theme for Meryl and Charlie that, especially if they don't have the same music as 80 other people, they are going to look great no matter what they skate to.

I agree that comparisons between the two teams are inevitable, but there are certain kinds of comparisons that can be avoided (in this case, in the area of balletic movement and all that entails--line, extension, etc.). I like Meryl's port de bras (arm carriage) and epaulement (head, neck, shoulder placement) but I feel that with the selection of this ballet score, there will be an expectation of pointed toes, extension, balletic movement. And, as I said, I wouldn't want them to invite a comparison to Elena or Tessa in those areas. There are ballet scores that I feel lend themselves to a non-balletic interpretation/aesthetic, and Giselle isn't one of them. JMO. Have they confirmed that they are doing march as the second rhythm? If not, they could very well choose waltz as their second rhythm, and when I heard they were doing Giselle, one of the pieces that stuck out to me was the Act 1 variation, in which Giselle dances a solo. One section could be used as a waltz, and they could interpret the spirit of that piece, rather than one that corresponds with the story being told in that scene in the original. For the march or polka I, like Piper, was also thinking they might use the peasant girls' dance. I was also thinking it could be the music of Le Chasse Royale, where the nobles enter. Combining two such pieces from Giselle--I just don't know how that would work.

As I said, they :kickass: at the polka, and I think they would want to invite comparisons in terms of the crispness and quickness of their movements. I would like music that really makes the most of these wonderful qualities (even outside the pattern dance), though a waltz would also be lovely.



I think this FD is a great choice for D/W. It will give them a chance to really work on characterization, an area I think they could stand to improve. I like how they constantly strive to be better and pick programs to bring that about. Good on them!

THIS. :cheer2:

Theatregirl1122
08-09-2012, 09:35 PM
I'm pretty sure the whole uplifting rule doesn't exist in actual practice. What was uplifting about Je Suis Malade? Although USFSA probaly wouldn't have let that program go because they wouldn't have understood it or something.

I really don't think anyone is going to look at a Sinatra FD and say that Meryl and Charlie are trying to stretch themselves artistically. People will see it as another ballroom FD and as their 3rd ballroom FD in a row. They haven't really done anything with a story since Vancouver. People are going to sat this is a totally safe choice, in fact they already are. And people are going to say that this is more of the same coming out of Zueva's camp. I think that, if V&M do Carmen, Meryl and Charlie could have a significant program advantage by choosing something that doesn't feel so "done". I feel like they cede that advantage with this choice.

And then if Giselle ends up looking a lot like DF and La Traviata, it'll probably compound the problem.

mollymgr
08-09-2012, 10:41 PM
I'm pretty sure the whole uplifting rule doesn't exist in actual practice. What was uplifting about Je Suis Malade? Although USFSA probaly wouldn't have let that program go because they wouldn't have understood it or something.

I don't think it does either but some people take it quite seriously.The USFSA will lap up Sinatra since it won't cause any confusion :cat:

literaryfreak
08-09-2012, 10:48 PM
Marina seems to be the only one still stuck on the "uplifting" rule. :lynch:

Bournekraatzfan
08-10-2012, 12:15 AM
I'm pretty sure the whole uplifting rule doesn't exist in actual practice. What was uplifting about Je Suis Malade? ...

Riazanova and Tkachenko received the full 2-point deduction (the rules state that the deduction can be 1.0-2.0) at Skate Canada this past season. R&T and their coaches actually tried to adhere to the rules by creating a program about a woman who is reliving happy memories of the times she shared with her late lover.

I am not sure why W&P were able to escape this deduction. The first part of their FD was happy, and then we got a change in tone and mood. That first bit may have been enough to satisfy the judges.

I don't like the rule and sincerely wish the ISU would do away with it.


I really don't think anyone is going to look at a Sinatra FD and say that Meryl and Charlie are trying to stretch themselves artistically. People will see it as another ballroom FD and as their 3rd ballroom FD in a row. They haven't really done anything with a story since Vancouver. People are going to sat this is a totally safe choice, in fact they already are. And people are going to say that this is more of the same coming out of Zueva's camp. I think that, if V&M do Carmen, Meryl and Charlie could have a significant program advantage by choosing something that doesn't feel so "done". I feel like they cede that advantage with this choice.

And then if Giselle ends up looking a lot like DF and La Traviata, it'll probably compound the problem.

I guess I see things differently. I never felt Die Fledermaus was similar to their Argentine tango medley. The mood, the rhythms, the feel of DF were so different from those of the tangos FD. And I like that they chose an Argentine tango--some elements were taken from the ballroom, but they didn't go with one of the continental tangos (which I often find bland). They had some street stylings in there that I really liked. In contrast, DF looked like something out of a grand ballroom. I am thinking they will incorporate foxtrot in this new FD, and that's fine with me:)

I also like that this music is easy to follow. I feel like a good number of audience members will be familiar with this music and will thus appreciate the program that much more. And I think this program could certainly provide an opportunity for them to expand their interpretive skills for the reason sap5 mentioned. can't wait to see this FD!

Subway
08-10-2012, 12:50 AM
I really don't think anyone is going to look at a Sinatra FD and say that Meryl and Charlie are trying to stretch themselves artistically. People will see it as another ballroom FD and as their 3rd ballroom FD in a row. They haven't really done anything with a story since Vancouver. People are going to sat this is a totally safe choice, in fact they already are. And people are going to say that this is more of the same coming out of Zueva's camp. I think that, if V&M do Carmen, Meryl and Charlie could have a significant program advantage by choosing something that doesn't feel so "done". I feel like they cede that advantage with this choice. Last I looked what people say, which is mostly people around the web - the same people - has no bearing on whether a program is a success or not. I'm never going to understand why a "story" is important in dance in some people's eyes. Dance exists apart from theatre. It's not just another way to tell a literal story. It can be part of theatre, but a story isn't necessary. I believe it's a lot more difficult to go out there without a storyline, the very opposite of safe.

Really, what succeeds or fails on FSU is a different thing that where teams end up on the podium. A lot of "people" think Zoueva is wonderfully diverse. They just don't post here.

mollymgr
08-10-2012, 01:20 AM
I am not sure why W&P were able to escape this deduction. The first part of their FD was happy, and then we got a change in tone and mood. That first bit may have been enough to satisfy the judges.



http://www.usfsa.org/Content/ISUHandbookforRefereesandJudges.pdf

http://www.skatecanadasaskatchewan.com/uploads/files/ISU%20Communication%201610.pdf

I thought they had defined uplifting, as in the music having a building effect. I don't think they cared whether the program was happy or sad, it does have to be entertaining and colorful. But I guess there are 10 ways to interpret it.
If skaters can levitate, I would say that is uplifting :lol:

Theatregirl1122
08-10-2012, 01:40 AM
I guess I see things differently. I never felt Die Fledermaus was similar to their Argentine tango medley. The mood, the rhythms, the feel of DF were so different from those of the tangos FD. And I like that they chose an Argentine tango--some elements were taken from the ballroom, but they didn't go with one of the continental tangos (which I often find bland). They had some street stylings in there that I really liked. In contrast, DF looked like something out of a grand ballroom. I am thinking they will incorporate foxtrot in this new FD, and that's fine with me:)

I don't think that DF is similar to the tango. I but they are both ballroom dance, which was my point. And La Traviata and DF were fairly similar.


And I like programs that have a story. And Meryl and Charlie are great story tellers. So I don't see why they should be stuck in this ball room dance rut when they have so much else to give. If they were good at it and it was all they could do, I'd be fine with it. And they are good at it. But it is definitely not all they can do.

I'm sorry for being so grumpy about this and I'll stop now. It's just the first time I've ever looked at their music selections and thought that I couldn't see any way that I'd enjoy the program. Partially because it just feels like it'll be exactly the same as the Shibs last two programs. I am sure I will enjoy whatever they do because it is them, but most of the time I've been lucky enough to really love their programs.

But I promise I'm done now.

sap5
08-10-2012, 02:30 AM
If they do it right, it shouldn't be like the Shibs last two programs at all. These are romantic songs -- the Shibs can't pretend to be "strangers in the night, exchanging glances," nor can they be dancing "cheek to cheek." If D/W don't illustrate these lyrics, then yeah, it will look like the Shibs. I'm hoping that won't be the case.

As for D/W being great storytellers, I don't agree, at least so far. They've picked FDs that have great stories, but have they really told that story? Take POTO -- who was Charlie supposed to be? He said he was supposed to be the Phantom, but what made him that? To me, he looked like a mishmash of the Phantom, Raoul, and a generic guy in a puffy shirt. And, to be honest, he looked the same as he did in S&D. There was a little improvement in characterization in DF, but truly, if I didn't know they were trying to portray a story, I wouldn't have seen one at all. It just looked like two people dancing to DF.

This time I want to see an honest to goodness story. Two people going through a range of emotions. That's going to be tricky for them, because they have to make their movements really count. No more random flinging of arms and legs and hair. I know they can do it, and I'm excited to see it.

Bournekraatzfan
08-10-2012, 05:28 AM
http://www.usfsa.org/Content/ISUHandbookforRefereesandJudges.pdf

http://www.skatecanadasaskatchewan.com/uploads/files/ISU%20Communication%201610.pdf

I thought they had defined uplifting, as in the music having a building effect. I don't think they cared whether the program was happy or sad, it does have to be entertaining and colorful. But I guess there are 10 ways to interpret it.
If skaters can levitate, I would say that is uplifting :lol:

:lol: That brings to mind the image of Meryl spinning off into outer space in their rotational lift! :)

Yes, that is the thing, I am not sure what the "uplifting effect" thing means. R&T had a constant tempo throughout their FD, but I thought they could have avoided it if they had shown an obvious change in mood. They had something at the beginning but maybe it wasn't enough? Thanks for pointing out the importance of the building effect...I just thought R&T's music was fine in that it did gain intensity, but I see now that the fact that the music descends after that might have been the problem? I had just assumed that "uplifting effect" meant happy and that a sad program could be penalized. I loved Malade and really enjoyed R&T's Snowstorm; this example was just to demonstrate that some teams are actually incurring that penalty. I have heard people saying there are loopholes, and I would appreciate it if anyone could offer suggestions as to what those are.


I don't think that DF is similar to the tango. I but they are both ballroom dance, which was my point. And La Traviata and DF were fairly similar.


And I like programs that have a story. And Meryl and Charlie are great story tellers. So I don't see why they should be stuck in this ball room dance rut when they have so much else to give. If they were good at it and it was all they could do, I'd be fine with it. And they are good at it. But it is definitely not all they can do.

I'm sorry for being so grumpy about this and I'll stop now. It's just the first time I've ever looked at their music selections and thought that I couldn't see any way that I'd enjoy the program. Partially because it just feels like it'll be exactly the same as the Shibs last two programs. I am sure I will enjoy whatever they do because it is them, but most of the time I've been lucky enough to really love their programs.

But I promise I'm done now.

Oh, I didn't mean you. I should have been clearer in my post. What I meant was that I see things differently than those posters who perceive those FDs to be essentially the same. I remember reading some of that stuff last fall and I didn't get it. I am fine with people doing multiple ballroom dances, but I don't even classify Meryl and Charlie's tango as ballroom because of its Argentine and possibly Uruguayan character.

and lol, I didn't think you were being grumpy. I think a lot of us are concerned about the music selections for these two teams because we want to see them continue to grow while also having an opportunity to shine, and we also have our own preferences in terms of music and dance styles, as well as program concepts. I find this discussion very interesting and appreciate hearing many different perspectives. In any case, we'll all be a lot perkier when the mighty polka arrives;)

pani
08-10-2012, 07:21 AM
Marina seems to be the only one still stuck on the "uplifting" rule. :lynch:

Maybe thats why D-W get so many 10th in component score last season? :D And W-P didnt get any? ;)

Piper
08-10-2012, 11:45 AM
Riazanova and Tkachenko recieved deduction not because of "uplifting rule", the official reason was that tempo wasn't changing through the whole dance, something like that.



I'm never going to understand why a "story" is important in dance in some people's eyes. Dance exists apart from theatre. It's not just another way to tell a literal story. It can be part of theatre, but a story isn't necessary. I believe it's a lot more difficult to go out there without a storyline, the very opposite of safe.



Yessss! I completely agree. It's the ice dance, and the main reason why I love Tango so much is that I could see two people, showing a magnificent dance - I didn't need anything else.
My friend once said and I agreed - it's much easier to create a thrilling story with theatrical characters. But a high-class skater can make a wonderful program concentrating only on dance.

mollymgr
08-10-2012, 03:26 PM
In terms of the tempo, the music selections would fall in this order to create a building effect.

Almost like being in love<Strangers in the night<Cheek to Cheek

Jessiebanana
08-10-2012, 05:28 PM
To be honest...I could never be sad about Cheek to Cheek. It's my favorite song. I think people are not giving them enough credit. I think they can bring soul and sophistication to this music that the Shibs aren't able to bring just yet. They're a different team and have a completely different style and power.

Also I'd cut Marina a break. We all know that Funny Face wasn't her idea. In fact Virtue made it very clear that they were taking charge of their own choreography in way they've never had before or were building up to. I put a lot of that cheesy fail squarely on their shoulders.

Also after seeing this I'm sort of itching for it. I didn't enjoy the Shibs programs as much this year and didn't watch them all the time, so I don't feel over-saturated in the genre.

http://youtu.be/0ORMU38oYa4
http://youtu.be/pFcn2dwu-7A

Obviously these are both very basic, but neither feel like the Shibs. I think the challenge for Meryl and Charlie will be projecting in and refraining from a more a outward theatrical campy style.