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triple_toe
04-16-2012, 11:56 PM
For all the people who said Alissa looked in better form at the beginning of the season... err, yes, I guess compared to Worlds and Challenge Cup she did, but that doesn't mean she was in good form. TEB was a great skate but Skate America was pretty crappy, even if she did get the title. Didn't she get negative goe on every jump in the long? It was shaky at best. Japan Open was decent, credit for 3triples and a double axel.

She's been off this whole season, TEB notwithstanding like I said.

UGG
04-17-2012, 12:11 AM
I was afraid that people would start to catch on and do this... Now the jump content of ladies skating programs is going to look like it did in the 1960's

Well, if COP were the scoring system 20 years ago-think of all the ladies who would not have performed a lutz.

After thinking about this, the problem really is that the ladies have been allowed to get away with flutzes until the last few years. So yeah they were attempting them but it was because there was no penalty. you could flutz and still be an Olympic Champion which in my mind i guess is kind of the same as just not having a lutz....if you think about it.

So I take back what I said about the lutzless ladies.

pinky166
04-17-2012, 12:17 AM
Alissa wasn't even that great at TEB honestly, fall on a downgraded lutz and messy 3lo-2t combo in the SP, then a 1a-2t combo and 5 triples in the FS, none of which got much GOE and most of which were borderline rotated. I mean, it was a good FS for her, but ppl have been giving Carolina crap for doing 5 triple LPs all season and Alissa's triples at TEB were nowhere near the quality of Carolina's, she only did 5, and that was her PB free skate score...I think that says a lot. Alissa is not our hope for a medal in Sochi if her TEB FS is the best she can do, the Russian girls, Gracie, and probably even the Chinese girls will eat her for breakfast, they are reeling of 3-3s like nothing and can regularly hit 6, 7 triples in a FS.

skateboy
04-17-2012, 09:35 PM
One thing Alissa has in her favor is that, unlike many of the ladies, she does all of the triples (save the axel) and is capable of doing so.

judgejudy27
04-17-2012, 09:59 PM
Alissa wasn't even that great at TEB honestly, fall on a downgraded lutz and messy 3lo-2t combo in the SP, then a 1a-2t combo and 5 triples in the FS, none of which got much GOE and most of which were borderline rotated. I mean, it was a good FS for her, but ppl have been giving Carolina crap for doing 5 triple LPs all season and Alissa's triples at TEB were nowhere near the quality of Carolina's, she only did 5, and that was her PB free skate score...I think that says a lot. Alissa is not our hope for a medal in Sochi if her TEB FS is the best she can do, the Russian girls, Gracie, and probably even the Chinese girls will eat her for breakfast, they are reeling of 3-3s like nothing and can regularly hit 6, 7 triples in a FS.

For me the 2011 Worlds was already enough to show Alissa will never medal at a major event. She skated about as close to clean as she almost ever will, only 1 mistake over the two programs. Yet in a really weak year she ended up 5th. Someone like Yu Na Kim skating at 55% capacity finished many points in front of her. Someone like Alissa Leonova not skating perfectly, and behind her after the short, managed to finish above her. The field will only get tougher and early 2011 seems destined to forever be her peak skating, and it didnt produce a World medal even in a fairly abysmal field.

Wagner, Gold, and maybe even Nagasu getting her act together again, or Zhang if she continues to improve, are all better prospects for Sochi.

arakwafan2006
04-17-2012, 10:06 PM
One thing Alissa has in her favor is that, unlike many of the ladies, she does all of the triples (save the axel) and is capable of doing so.

yeah...cuz i dont remember seeing a salchow

jlai
04-18-2012, 05:14 AM
One thing Alissa has in her favor is that, unlike many of the ladies, she does all of the triples (save the axel) and is capable of doing so.

One thing in her favor is her soft skating and her edges. Her 2011 Long program exemplified the type of soft, technically sound basic skating that judges wanted to see. Not all the top US ladies have it right now (except Mirai, who we know :fragile: )

But Alissa's skating could use more speed and power

Any upcomer who wants to be national champ will need to improve their basic skating.
(Cough...Gracie, Courtney and Agnes...cough)

kwanfan1818
04-18-2012, 06:57 AM
I saw Zawadzki live at 4C's, and I didn't see anything wrong with her basic skating. I've never seen Czisny skate with that speed, flow, and power.

I've never seen Gold live.

Marco
04-18-2012, 09:03 AM
I saw Zawadzki live at 4C's, and I didn't see anything wrong with her basic skating. I've never seen Czisny skate with that speed, flow, and power.

I've never seen Gold live.

Zawadzki's basics has improved this season since moving to Krall. She used to be so slow and laboured.

Czisny is never laboured, but she is slow.

demetriosj
04-18-2012, 02:41 PM
One thing Alissa has in her favor is that, unlike many of the ladies, she does all of the triples (save the axel) and is capable of doing so.

Who are you trying to kid?

Her jumps have always been cheated and inconsistent and totally unreliable!

When she lands a jump, it's an amazing feat...

apatinar
04-18-2012, 03:50 PM
I just rewatched Alissa's TEB FS and even though she landed most of the jumps, they were still wonky

jlai
04-19-2012, 12:17 AM
I saw Zawadzki live at 4C's, and I didn't see anything wrong with her basic skating. I've never seen Czisny skate with that speed, flow, and power.

I've never seen Gold live.

I saw Gold live. She is fast and she moves well.
(Agnes does not have bad basics, but it's not YuNa/Mirai/Mao level. But then I've never seen Agnes live up close)

Anyway...does any of these upcomers (or any of the US top ladies) have fluid edges like Mao or even Sotnikova? Or deep edges? Judging from video I am not sure if any does.

Though I'm not an expert, hence my question.

kwanfan1818
04-19-2012, 12:32 AM
I've never seen Sotnikova live, but I've seen Asada live starting in 2005. I have mixed feelings about her basic skating: there are times when she seems shaky on her edges, and her speed has fluctuated, depending on the competition. (I only saw the Ladies SP at Vancouver, so I don't know about her FS.)

This year, on TV, she looked more fluid than she had in several years, taking paths along sweeping curves instead of the Tarasova back-and-forth, but I was shocked that at 4C's, skating right before Lacoste, she looked tentative and tepid by comparison. I know that was just a few months after her mother died, but she didn't look strong.

Suzuki, whom I saw in separate competitions than Asada this year, has better edges, flow, and power, IMO.

Sylvia
04-19-2012, 12:37 AM
Maybe we could start a new thread in GSD about skaters' edge quality and control/flow/power as a continuation of the deep edges/technique topic in the Trash Can?

ETA: Thanks, jlai, for copying over some of the relevant posts from here to the "U.S. Ladies [#4]" thread in the Trash Can: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showpost.php?p=3549314&postcount=63

jlai
04-19-2012, 03:18 AM
Maybe we could start a new thread in GSD about skaters' edge quality and control/flow/power as a continuation of the deep edges/technique topic in the Trash Can?

What if I continue this in US ladies thread in the trash can (http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=83196&page=4) (I've reached my "new thread quota" today :) )