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Japanfan
04-03-2012, 06:29 AM
If we compared all of Patrick's and Dai's programs the past two seasons, I am fairly certain that Patrick has made more mistakes. Granted, Patrick's programs are more difficult, hence more mistakes, especially when he's working on a new program. But he's also less experienced than Dai, who has overcome past consistency issues.

Patrick's 3-A has become amazingly consistent this season, but he's made mistakes on at least one that I remember, as well as mistakes on quads and footwork.

I'd suggest Takahashi include a 4/3 in the short and aim to skate a completely clean short to take advantage of any mistakes made by Chan. This might give him a good enough lead to have a better chance of beating Chan overall.

He also needs to study the system and get feedback from judges about how he can improve his PCS and where he leaves points on the table.

Aussie Willy
04-03-2012, 06:41 AM
I daresay as a top skater in Japan he probably gets plenty of feedback. He probably understands the system very well, it is a matter of applying it.

Marco
04-03-2012, 07:31 AM
I was just watching Chan's and Takahashi's exhibition skates last night and thought to myself: Takahashi is the better performer / artist but Chan is definitely the better skater. Takahashi is effortless in his expressions and Chan is effortless in his glides. If they both push each other into improving on the other person's strength, they can soon become super skaters.

skating is fun
04-03-2012, 09:32 AM
I`ve seen Dai as a 15-year-old at Nations Cup and he fell all the time. But he recovered quickly and seemed to be unimpressed. Even then you could see his enormous talent and it was great to see how he improved every year.

He is no doubt one of the two best skaters in the world, but I must admit that for the first time I was a bit disappointed in his free program. The choreo was a little empty and I had flashes of KvdP and Joubert in mind - maybe because of the music, but still. His spins have become better, but are not centered and I think his footwork was not as strong as in the previous years. Usually his programs are extremly interesting, but he needs to find both music and choreo that expresses his style and strengths. And of course he needs the quads.

Patrick has become extremly confident this season, he grew up (I had to love when I watched his 4CC exhibition, it is so true) and I think is is way superior when it comes to natural skills. He still needs to focus more to avoid stupd mistakes and his spins could be better. But overall he is a notch above Dai in his abilities and will be hard to beat. I have been watching skating for more than 35 years now and for me he is the most talented of all - if he is able to hold it together.

os168
04-03-2012, 11:26 AM
I was just watching Chan's and Takahashi's exhibition skates last night and thought to myself: Takahashi is the better performer / artist but Chan is definitely the better skater. Takahashi is effortless in his expressions and Chan is effortless in his glides. If they both push each other into improving on the other person's strength, they can soon become super skaters.

^^ This And it is because of them both, men's figure skating is soooo good right now.

And in the meantime Hanyu will continue to improve leaps and bounds and eventually take over from them both for the OGM Sochi :P

He is rumoured working a 4S for next year, can't wait!

robinhood
04-03-2012, 11:45 AM
Keep being as cool! I think the choice of music prevented him of getting better PcS....feel the judges didn't buy into that music, although I feel Dai is the only one that can do it justice. Aranjuez is much more judge pleasing in comparison, though IMO hate that violin version ad nauseum
About transitions, Dai has more than enough! Every jump except the 2 3A and the quad had transitions going in and out and his footwork is out of this world
What happens right now, is that Patrick Chan atm is at his peak and he clearly has qualities above the rest of the field that make him almost unbeatable. just compare Takahashi from last season to this one, the advance in his ss and everything else is superb. I don't know what he has to do to have Chan glide, but I still enjoy him the most out of everyone and he's one heck of a skater!

Zemgirl
04-03-2012, 11:50 AM
Kevin van der Perren mentioned in his IN interview that it's easy to see which skaters started out in the 6.0 system and which one grew up with the IJS, and I think it's pretty obvious that he's right; the emphasis in the training would have been very different and it's so difficult to change some things at an older age. But Dai is among the few skaters remaining who made the transition to senior even before the current system came in, and it's harder to see those 6.0 origins in his case. It's a credit to him that he has been able to adjust to the IJS so well.

I'm not sure what more he can do. His quad may never be as consistent as those of some of the other guys, probably due in large part to the injury he sustained back in 2008, so adding it to the SP or putting in a 4-3 will remain a risk. He's improved his spins. His programs this year have been fantastic and at times should probably have gotten him better marks than they did. Some things are just out of his hands.

mikeko
04-03-2012, 11:57 AM
In FS, Chan was clearly behind the music, and even he admitted that in an interview and said probably that was why he fell and missed the 2A. He got one point of deduction for time violation because he couldn't finish his performance with the music. Yet, he received more points in IN than Takahashi, who was in perfect tune with the music from the first to the last note.

So, what does Takahashi need to do?

judgejudy27
04-03-2012, 12:20 PM
He needs to wear a Patrick Chan mask so the judges think he is Patrick Chan, and thus score him how they would score Patrick Chan for skating that particular performance, which in many cases this season would have been higher than what they scored the real Patrick Chan. However since they know he is not Patrick Chan, outskating the real one still gives no chance whatsoever of victory.

Emdee
04-03-2012, 01:02 PM
Actually, just the mask wont do it his feet will let him down as an imposter. What he has to do is get Patrick's feet.

Once he does he will get Patrick's marks.

judgejudy27
04-03-2012, 01:05 PM
He would also have to fall and stumble several times and be sure to keep a zombie expression on his masked face to convince it is Chan. A clean performance or any feel or passion for the performance or music would immediately give away that it is not Chan.

A judge
04-03-2012, 01:09 PM
In FS, Chan was clearly behind the music, and even he admitted that in an interview and said probably that was why he fell and missed the 2A. He got one point of deduction for time violation because he couldn't finish his performance with the music. Yet, he received more points in IN than Takahashi, who was in perfect tune with the music from the first to the last note.

So, what does Takahashi need to do?

But there is more to IN than being in perfect tune with the music.

os168
04-03-2012, 01:15 PM
Daisuke need to develop those Patrick Chan psychedelic eyes capable to hypnotize the judges into submission.

Or

ask ISU to enforce the new rule: skater must wear boxes on their head to hide their true identity while doing their bits and pieces, so anonymous judging can meet anonymous skaters!!!

...but

even that won't work! Because you know the ever resourceful Patrick Chan will manage a way to boost those PCS somehow, after all what does PCS stand for except for Patrick Chan Score? It was a destiny made in heaven.

Takahashi can not fight destiny, so he must over throw it by revolution! 4 revolutions TWICE in the same program infact!! It would be the battle of all ages, but I suspect a young obiwan may soon sneak past them with his own Pooh bear force.

It would be awesome to watch... so Epsiode 1 - The Phantom Menace has already began. Will we start to experience the Attack of the Patrick clones? Or will we be seeing the Revenge of the Seethe [aka skating forum eyeballs]? Personally I am leaning on A New Hope in Hanyu who will hopefully lead the Empire Strike Back until finally we have Return of the Jedi to defend the figure skating universe again, maybe Plushy or Evan or Lambiel?

Zemgirl
04-03-2012, 01:17 PM
But there is more to IN than being in perfect tune with the music.
Your definition of interpretation does not seem to align with that of the ISU (http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152077-169293-64120-0-file,00.pdf):

Effortless movement in time to the music (timing)
Expression of the music’s style, character and rhythm
Use of finesse to reflect the nuances of the music

Perhaps you can explain how a skater who is behind the music can possibly be doing any of those things?

The other bullet points are for pairs/dance. There is a longer explanation of the criteria here (http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-152086-169302-64121-0-file,00.pdf).

arakwafan2006
04-03-2012, 01:19 PM
Eh, besides QUADS, he needs better SPEED, better SKATING SKILL, better EDGES, better TRANSITIONS, better CHOREOGRAPHY, better PROGRAM to show off his skill and body line, better STYLE, more COMPLEX FOOTWORK...

Takahashi in competition cuts the natural rideout of his jumps short. In practice his jumps are nice and clean looking but in competition he rushes his landings and they look stiff and stilted.

He does need reliable quads in every outing as well. I'm glad he's not playing around with that quad flip in big events anymore. The toe gives him enough trouble. That goes to show how hard those jumps are. Clearly Dai has been doing them for about a decade but they are tough. The improvement in his axel over the past couple years is superb.