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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir #16: You can't blame me for feeling amorous



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aka_gerbil
04-02-2012, 02:18 AM
I'm with flowerpower: it's just an absolutely ridiculous thing to say that V/M have peaked and can't get any better. I want to know what they're smoking if they think that V/M haven't improved since their senior debut. IMO, they're better now than they were two years ago.

This is sort of related to the above, but I also think that performance (interpretation, I suppose would be more correct) tends to improve as skaters get older. I think it's a function of just having different life experiences, and the only way to get those is to live. I know I grew a lot personally in my 20's--particularly my early 20's. I'd say the same thing we've seen in other skaters over the years also holds with V/M.

martyross
04-02-2012, 02:35 AM
woa, very interesting interview! i'm loving their personalities more and more. they're real people! i love the mention about Scott and Charlie's friendship. guys are this way, mortal enemies on the ice, but loyal off it, and a lot of camerade. it works very differently for the ladiez.
re: the nasty comments here and there, i can't wait for pani's return and then the real fight starts again ahahah!! i think we collected enough material for it at this point. enough to cover an entire off-season? :D yak yak!

Proustable
04-02-2012, 02:43 AM
ETA: Someone else mentioned elsewhere that they thought V-M had reached their peak and could not improve any more. I find this interesting because it is something I read on Twitter a lot as well. Many even question if V-M have changed or improved at all since their senior debut, which I find...puzzling. Being a huge fan of the technical aspects of the sport, I wish we could do an element-by-element comparison between Valse Triste and Funny Face, with gifs and all. I want to do it, but I need help as I am not at all versed in gif-making and all that.

Oh, that's utter bullshit. Sorry. Actually, the level of improvement between Worlds "Assassination Tango/Valse Triste" and SC "Russian Folk/Umbrellas" is scary awesome. Their speed, their projection...

Element by element? Lifts are more secure, varied, intricate with better ice coverage. I'd say the same for the twizzles. Spins are basically at the same level, though I'd say Tessa's positions have improved. Steps are arguably the hardest to tell the difference.

Basically, saying they didn't improve as much as other teams might be true, but only because they were so utterly good in the first place. It's a weakly passive-aggresive arguement to make and really does them no good. But hey, another way to look at it - as soon as they stepped on the world stage, they had the abilities of Olympic champions and multiple world medalists.

I can grock with that.

Zazy
04-02-2012, 02:50 AM
I want to know what they're smoking if they think that V/M haven't improved since their senior debut. IMO, they're better now than they were two years ago.


I think people are confusing "V/M haven't improved" and "V/M haven't evolved in the direction I would have liked to see". They are two different things.

They have definitely improved in the last two years, particularly in skating skills and maturity of expression.

Sonata
04-02-2012, 02:54 AM
I find V/M are almost victims of their own success. Their Mahler program was transcendant and it's like everybody is expecting something like that from them every year. Last year's programs were top notch as well. I guess this year's program just didn't draw people in. Personally I believe their Funny Face program has some beautiful moves and shows off their sophistication, but just has too many music cuts, which prevented me from becoming completely drawn into the program.

There seems to be a double standard. I enjoyed D/W's FD this year, but had V/M chosen that music, I believe they would have been accused of playing it safe and being too traditional. Also, V/M are no longer seen as underdogs. Last year, they were the underdogs because of their injury, it seems that sometime this year, a switch has flipped and people have ganged up on them for being the favoured ones.

I really wonder what Marina has in mind for them for the next Olympics. If they go for another romantic program, they'll be accused of doing the same thing again, but I do think they draw in the crowd with those kinds of programs.

elle123
04-02-2012, 03:39 AM
Basically, saying they didn't improve as much as other teams might be true, but only because they were so utterly good in the first place. It's a weakly passive-aggresive arguement to make and really does them no good. But hey, another way to look at it - as soon as they stepped on the world stage, they had the abilities of Olympic champions and multiple world medalists.

I can grock with that.

I think this is the crux of these ridiculous comments. Tessa and Scott have pretty much won every title imaginable and the improvements may not seem as obvious as the years pass.

I think FF was a bit of a risk because it's not music everyone enjoys but it was done in the perfect year - halfway to the next OG and it allowed them to really put their performance skills to work. I'm really looking forward to the next two years.

walei
04-02-2012, 03:41 AM
The universe needs them to skate to Sigur Ros' "Hoppipolla"

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I will cry happy man tears if this happens!!

I was thinking what they should skate next season that is akin to Pink Floyd but not your generic contemporary/jazzed up popular music and couldn't think of anything until you said Sigur Ros. In fact I think Hoppipolla is so epic they should do it for Sochi LOL!!

Marina said in one interview she's running out of ideas for them so someone send them the clip and hope they can take a cue from Weaver/Poje and get some solid suggestions from the fans!!

Cherub721
04-02-2012, 03:41 AM
I definitely think they have improved - no question - but even if they didn't.... if they were better than the other teams then (as in the ones still competing, not Denkova/Staviyski, Dubreiul/Lauzon, etc) and are still better now.... then they should be on the top! The 5 teams that beat them in 2007 are all retired now, and IMO none of the teams who placed below them have improved to the point that they are now better than V&M. So it's just a silly argument all around.

The whole "improving" thing has always bugged me, even for reality shows... when Emmit Smith won Dancing with the Stars, everyone said it was because "he had improved so much over the season" but IMO Mario Lopez was better from week 1 til the finale, dammit!!! :lol:

Golightly
04-02-2012, 03:49 AM
There seems to be a double standard. I enjoyed D/W's FD this year, but had V/M chosen that music, I believe they would have been accused of playing it safe and being too traditional.

True. And we know how great they are at waltzing.

ddtpdx
04-02-2012, 04:17 AM
I definitely think they have improved - no question - but even if they didn't.... if they were better than the other teams then (as in the ones still competing, not Denkova/Staviyski, Dubreiul/Lauzon, etc) and are still better now.... then they should be on the top! The 5 teams that beat them in 2007 are all retired now, and IMO none of the teams who placed below them have improved to the point that they are now better than V&M. So it's just a silly argument all around.

The whole "improving" thing has always bugged me, even for reality shows... when Emmit Smith won Dancing with the Stars, everyone said it was because "he had improved so much over the season" but IMO Mario Lopez was better from week 1 til the finale, dammit!!! :lol:

They are the best so it's natural that they are targeted. We fans should just take these digs as a form of compliment :)

Macassar88
04-02-2012, 04:24 AM
I miss "I Want to Hold Your Hand"

Bournekraatzfan
04-02-2012, 06:42 AM
"Ain't No Mountain" is one of my favorite songs ever. The program is still rough, and you can tell they're having to pay more attention to remembering the steps instead of performing, but I already sort of love this. I think it'll be fantastic once they've had a chance to get comfortable with it.

I have mixed feelings on the dress. It's very appropriate for the time period that the song is from, but I'm still not sure how I feel about it. I don't hate it, but I don't love it either.

How nice! It is always cool when your favourite skaters skate to your favourite music.
...hmmmm, you did say you would leave some suggestions on Scott's FB page....are you responsible for their music selection? ;)

I have wanted Tessa and Scott to D-I-S-C-O for the last couple of years, and when I saw their Latin FD last year, I was even more convinced that it would be perfect for them, as much of disco is infused with influences from many Latin dances and takes as its basis a lot of those concepts of movement. I am so excited with this choice of program, and can't wait to see it after they have had a chance to really practice it. I love how they incorporate some of the classic moves like the scissors, revolving hands, the hip bump--really captures the disco era and shows off their range of motion. I would love to see them take it even further and do the hustle! This team can dance.

And I am loving the dress!

Bournekraatzfan
04-02-2012, 07:58 AM
Oh, that's utter bullshit. Sorry. Actually, the level of improvement between Worlds "Assassination Tango/Valse Triste" and SC "Russian Folk/Umbrellas" is scary awesome. Their speed, their projection...

Element by element? Lifts are more secure, varied, intricate with better ice coverage. I'd say the same for the twizzles. Spins are basically at the same level, though I'd say Tessa's positions have improved. Steps are arguably the hardest to tell the difference.

Basically, saying they didn't improve as much as other teams might be true, but only because they were so utterly good in the first place. It's a weakly passive-aggresive arguement to make and really does them no good. But hey, another way to look at it - as soon as they stepped on the world stage, they had the abilities of Olympic champions and multiple world medalists.

I can grock with that.

ITA. Not only do I find the claim that they haven't improved at all highly inaccurate, I also find it more than a touch disrespectful. I can't think of a single skater or team of skaters who hasn't/haven't improved since their first year on the senior circuit. The notion that Tessa and Scott have completely stagnated is dismissive of all their hard work and commitment. I know we will all see and be drawn to different things in skating, but it seems clear as day to me that they have improved a lot over the years (and undoubtedly would have improved even more if they hadn't lost so much time, and I imagine some confidence, to injury).

Just to expand on some of the improvements you listed with some things I noticed:

-big improvement in their lifts between 2006/2007 and 2007/2008 seasons: increased awareness of their centres of gravity and centre point of balance, as they learned to shift their weight and manage torque, resulting in difficult lifts skated with power and great stability
-twizzles became even faster between 2009/2010 and 2010/2011 seasons
-more numerous and complex transitions in the 2008/2009 season (and they also upped the difficulty in their lifts)
-throughout the years they have improved their edge quality (hard to notice because they have always had such strong technique), the amplitude of their patterns, and their power and have learned to project outwards

I also have to say that they worked with more rhythmic variations after 2007/2008

When I hear people saying that a skater or team has peaked and their time is over, I think of skaters like W&P. I remember reading in forums in 2009 that they had peaked, were too limited to ever really challenge for the top spots, and would soon be left in the dust by other teams...I'll bet those people were eating their words when they saw W&P this season, if not before. If a team is willing to put in the work and try new things (and all I have read and seen would indicate that Tessa and Scott are), who's to say they can't reach a new level in their skating? The sky's the limit!:)

PashaFan
04-02-2012, 11:03 AM
I miss "I Want to Hold Your Hand"

YES :(

PashaFan
04-02-2012, 11:06 AM
Their Gala programe was not a piece of music that I like BUT Tessa & Scott skate so well that I'm drawn into it.
I ended up really enjoying it.
I also LOVED her dress:D