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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir #16: You can't blame me for feeling amorous



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clarie
04-09-2012, 01:34 PM
As a Canadian, I have been a fan of skaters from other countries as well as my own (Yagudin comes to mind), but remembering when I first saw V/M as children, I knew there was something very special about them because they stayed in my teflon brain long after I had first seen them before they became international stars of the sport. I've never really been an uber of anyone until Tessa and Scott. These two have such beautiful basics...cudos to their 1st coaches for that (and their natural abilities).

I love to dance, and I love to see a connection when watching dance and that goes for ice-dance as well. I love feeling the connection to my dance partner, whether it's just a fun connection, romantic connection, sexual connection, or all three. (I have a dance floor in my rec. room :D.) This is what I get from Tessa and Scott as they are so good at this that people thought they were definitely a couple. They can put on the "sizzle" just like the "dance sport" couples. It makes me feel good to watch them!

I may not post a lot and certainly am not a numbers cruncher, but consider myself to be an "uber". :)

sap5
04-09-2012, 01:42 PM
Suggesting that V/M continue to build in the direction of translating true floor technique and movement to the ice is not actually synonymous with saying anything whatsoever about D/W, but whatever floats your boat.


I think pani must really be a D/W uber, because she sees them in every post...even when they're not there.

I like V/M because I love watching dance.

twinktwink
04-09-2012, 01:44 PM
All their programs are different, all involving a romantic attachment at some stage and why the hell not? When you go out dancing with your boyfriend, you don't look at the floor or the ceiling or the people ordering a drink at the bar, you look at HIM. You dance with HIM. Dancing is, in essence, a way to connect with someone you are attracted to. Sure, there are other types of dancing, but this dancing? This dancing is about a man and woman being utterly attracted to one another. I don't get that BS about them always being in love when they dance when that's what they have to do. I mean, have these people ever danced with a significant other in their entire lives? What is DF about if not two people flirting through a waltz? And this is where I always say D-W failed to portray their characters and no amount of arguing is going to convince me otherwise. I find the romance criticism so, pardon the use of such a silly word but it's fitting here, LAME. It's lame! It goes against the very nature of dancing. There's connection, there's flirtatiousness, there's romance, there's love, and yes, there is sex. Each and every single one of their free dances have presented those themes at some point or another. If you want to be an idiot and call that one-dimensional, go ahead and do it. That, to me, is dancing.
Sorry for the rant.

^THIS, THIS, THIS!!!!

OMG this is exactly what I'm always thinking whenever someone brings up the put down of their programs always being romantic. It grates on my last nerve so much because dance is about a man and a woman dancing together. That is the basis of dance. Yes a lot of people changed that by thinking outside the box and in a solo piece using dance as an expression of the self and what not but when you come back to the basic principle of dance, romance IS what its all about.

It doesn't have to be dreamy romance with fairies and bunnies gathering around like in a fricking fairytale but its the foundation of a dance that's danced between a man and a woman. Put very simply its about love stories that are at the beginning, middle or end. There needs to be some kind of connection though because otherwise what's the point? Yes its great to see a technically gifted dancer perform but if I can't see or feel them connecting to what they're doing then I'm left feeling empty inside and to me that's not what dance is about. Dance should move the person that's performing and watching.

Now I have to apologise for going off on my own rant :lol: All IMO of course :)

twinktwink
04-09-2012, 01:48 PM
if anyone is interested there is a thread on golden skate about dance and politics with some really interesting remarks on canton teams. particularly at the last post. http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?36740-Ice-Dance-Yesterday-Today-and-Tomorrow

that pic pretty much summarize the whole season.. (no, you can't blame me for feeling dangerous :D )

Thanks for the link. This was a fascinating read. I tend to only visit GoldenSkate when there's a competition because its free for the pbp but I think I'll have to take a peak over there more often.

martyross
04-09-2012, 04:17 PM
something i've been wondering, in your opinion, what do they express in the Pink Floyd program? they're super connected, but it doesnt look as romance.
btw, funny face wasnt even about romance, it is so only at the end. it is a generalization. to me, even if one doesnt like a skater or is not interested, should give the credit for what he or she does taking in consideration the complexity and the quality of all the programs, without labelling and generalizing.
sorry for writing poorly, lol

aka_gerbil
04-09-2012, 04:35 PM
I've spent some time myself musing over V/M's programs and the claims by some that they're always "lovey-dovey romantic crap."

Where I've ended up is that there is always going to be a subset of people who will always label V/M's programs as "lovey-dovey" simply because of the connection that V/M have with each other. They could go out and skate to some heavy metal, dressed as punk rockers with pink and blue hair, and that one group would still call the program romantic.

V/M have done 6 senior FD's at this point. I'd call three of those traditionally romantic/romantic-ish--Mahler, UoC, and Valse Triste. Although their connection is evident in both (as it's evident in everything they put on the ice), I don't consider either the latin FD or especially the Pink Floyd FD to be romantic. Of course, these two programs came in the years that Tessa had to have surgery, so those FD's weren't out in front of people anywhere nearly as much as other programs in other years. They competed the Pink Floyd FD only 4 times--Canadian Nationals, 4CC, World's, and the WTT. The latin FD only made it out one full time. If they had been able to have full seasons with those programs, as someone else said, it might have helped impression-wise.

Funny Face falls into more of a gray area, IMO. It has romantic overtones (though certainly not lovey-dovey) just because of the movie, but it's far more of a character/broadway musical piece.

martyross
04-09-2012, 04:49 PM
Nothing mean or extreme, but her comment about being happy to meet with the judges to see what they wanted for D/W to improve struck me as a little sharp (though yes, I admit, I'm projecting).
Who made this comments? Marina? Maybe now its deal of her life to made something for D-W will beat V-M :lol:
no, meryl davis said that. well immagine if she began the press conference saying, "its a piss-off". :lol:
one of those rare moments in which you can say "the pisses are even".

pani
04-09-2012, 04:58 PM
no, meryl davis said that. well immagine if she began the press conference saying, "its a piss-off". :lol:
one of those rare moments in which you can say "the pisses are even".

Thanks! I thought Marina said this :D
I think this only show how big pressure is in Canton now. And i am a little worry about all of them. Maybe thats why Z-Sh were sad? Scott is open and felt better after he show all his amotions, when Meryl is more close person, but very expressive?
Only Charlie alwayse look happy and didnt care about all this at all :D Good for him.

martyross
04-09-2012, 05:16 PM
mmh agree, white seems to be a good pal..

pani
04-09-2012, 05:23 PM
mmh agree, white seems to be a good pal..

They all good guys (dont know about Meryl) but pressure is too high.
But Tessa look like person, who care mor about to be nice person, then champion :)

Emdee
04-09-2012, 05:42 PM
Tessa did look like the cat who got the cream when she smiled at the results. Scott was kind of open mouthed.

They must indeed be in a pressure cooker.

But it must be good for them but less pressure now . They are Oly champions, they are repeat world champions etc. They can go forward now just skating their best and enjoy it - no need to prove anything to anyone. At least this is how I hope they look at it.

pani
04-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Tessa did look like the cat who got the cream when she smiled at the results. Scott was kind of open mouthed.

They must indeed be in a pressure cooker.

But it must be good for them but less pressure now . They are Oly champions, they are repeat world champions etc. They can go forward now just skating their best and enjoy it - no need to prove anything to anyone. At least this is how I hope they look at it.

I remember Scott said they wish this gold too hard, because they want to prove, there gold in 2010 wasnt an accident.

taf2002
04-09-2012, 05:58 PM
Sorry, i didnt talk about you, just about haters, who could hate in silence :D
And every time will found V-M boring, no matter, what they skate ;)

When you all talking about audience friendly FD, did you remamber about last season Samba FD? This FD wasnt audience-friendly? Wasnt this FD modern? Was it boring, romantic? If even ubers didnt see this, i am not wonder, haters didnt :D

Well you certainly don't hate in silence. IMO you are the biggest hater on this board. You jump all over anyone in the V/M thread who have anything nice to say about another dance team, esp Davis/White, you go into the D/W thread in order to flame, & you constantly bring up Meryl in every thread. You criticize every word that comes out of her mouth and twist her words so it makes her look like a bad sport, but Scott's poor sportsmanship last year got a pass from you. FTR, I don't expect skaters to be angels all the time so I don't mind him getting a pass from his fans, but be a little consistant. At least don't make up stuff that didn't happen. Your constant refrain of "Meryl is a devil" is getting really old.

Shayii
04-09-2012, 05:58 PM
Walei lol at your dream! I had a dream about them recently, but mine was sad instead of entertaining. I'm not sure if it was supposed to be Worlds, but something happened during their FD (I think Tessa fell or something) and when their scores came up she burst into tears and buried her face in Marina's shoulder. Lol I'm not sure I like them infiltrating my subconscious like this.



Only Charlie alwayse look happy and didnt care about all this at all :D Good for him.

Yes you're right about this he's always happy. When I watched the NBC broadcast yesterday he genuinely looked happy for Tessa and Scott when he was clapping for them. I was like aww what a nice guy, I like him.

Subway
04-09-2012, 06:00 PM
What is DF about if not two people flirting through a waltz? And this is where I always say D-W failed to portray their characters and no amount of arguing is going to convince me otherwise. I find the romance criticism so, pardon the use of such a silly word but it's fitting here, LAME. It's lame! It goes against the very nature of dancing. There's connection, there's flirtatiousness, there's romance, there's love, and yes, there is sex. Each and every single one of their free dances have presented those themes at some point or another. If you want to be an idiot and call that one-dimensional, go ahead and do it. That, to me, is dancing. sorry for the rant. I haven't deconstructed DF enough to back up my opinion. Yet I felt the performance area was such a high point for them early in the season. The DF fd was a wonderful combination of power and effervescence. It was irresistably rewatchable, to me, although not as difficult as FF.

At some point - MO - Meryl lost the effervescence, a natural lightness, and became technical and driven, without the musical phrasing that had been highlights earlier. Charlie stayed about the same, but as the season came on, the program appeared in my eyes to become once again about blasting on all cylinders through the elements, without differentiation, and the edges weren't as deep nor was the ice coverage as expansive. It's brilliantly choreographed to acknowledge and exploit the music and be "performance proof" but I felt there was a performance decline that began to highlight what perhaps were technical shortcomings.

The protocols showed a specific, limited area where D/W lost so obviously this was my impression of DF. I felt early on it didn't matter that they didn't have the natural connection of VM. Many great teams didn't and don't and are great anyway. I just felt the musicality eroded; also noticed that the blade drive was not what it was - speed, but not necessarily deriving from great, long blade runs.