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IoanaC
04-08-2012, 06:33 PM
Do you think D-W show something new?
I didnt read WCh thread, because i dont want to read this uber oipnions. But you need to bring this in V-M thread :(

Pani, Sliver's whole post from the pbp thread was an excellent one and he/she is right in many ways. Including the way Meryl and Charlie were scored - too highly - in the first part of the season, and the repetitive moves. That's why I too think Tessa and Scott could really use an outside choreographer, fresh ideas. I'm quoting here the main part of Sliver's post, in which you can see that he agrees with the result and considers T&S the best and the rightful winners.


One of the best last groups we have had an ages, it was really amazing, even though I enjoyed 3-4-5 more than the top 2.

It's so simplistic for fans to say, leave your coaches and move to Zhulin or move to Krylova. There is a million things to consider: families, finances, habit, not to mention federations etcetc. Who says Krylova/C will take rivals to Pechalat and Weaver? Why would I want to uproot my life, leave the best coaching team in the world (love them or hate them) when they've given me 2 world titles and an Olympic one. Not everyone is chasing artistic genius and integrity. Some skaters are in it to skate beautifully and win. Just playing devil's advocate...

Ive said this before but the problem with V/M and D/V is not the music or the 'themes' they choose. As someone rightly pointed out, V/M have not used repetitive themes. The issue with these 2 couples is the repertoire of movement. The way they 'dance', move their bodies, transition from one element to the next. The way the lifts are constructed etc...You can give them any music and they will generally 'dance' it in the same way. There is little research in the movement. It is a very traditional, stripped down, simple way of moving. This is why fans love V/M 09 free dance because they tried to move differently. The music and the theme are not going to change anything, they need new 'moves', new lifts, new transitions.

Back to tonight, I have never judged D/W as being better than V/M, not in any department. To me it was closer in 09 and 10, so I am not sure why the judges decided to shower 10's on D/W all season, yet they were beaten quite convincingly here. It doesnt look like there was a US judge on the panel and one of the callers was Canadian, that must have helped a tiny bit.
I am sure D/W are a bit wtf at the result and I dont blame them. 'You are the best, you are the best' all year, then at the most important event, 'ermm sorry you're not'. Still I am pleased the best couple in the world won. The difference between the 2 is more obvious in the SD for me. D/W's short dance should not even be second. Both free dances are not masterpieces. But in a 'random' non olympic or pre olympic year, I guess they both took their feet off the gas.

pani
04-08-2012, 07:25 PM
Its my IMHO - i didnt see nothing usuall in V-M Samba FD.
Even more - D-W made the same lifts during 6 years and skate waltz during last 3 years, but for FSU they alwayse show something new.
http://s019.radikal.ru/i634/1204/5d/7e0599d6d1d7.jpg
Great reaction on V-M gold from coaches :D

lavenderblue
04-08-2012, 07:35 PM
Suggesting that V/M continue to build in the direction of translating true floor technique and movement to the ice is not actually synonymous with saying anything whatsoever about D/W, but whatever floats your boat.

Regarding blues dance, I'd have to imagine that, given what they've shown the last couple of years, if they were to go in that direction in one of the next two seasons, they'd draw upon inspiration from the floor rather than prior blues ice dance programs, and to that end, I think there's quite a bit of movement that would translate well enough. It would also be a major challenge, but one to which they, most of all, would be very well-suited. This channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/campbellandchris?feature=watch) has some great programs that really showcase the style's complexity.

pani
04-08-2012, 08:01 PM
All years T-S compete in seniors there so many criticism about them and there programs. Like this two are worst ice dance team ever.
People didnt notice nothing good and new, but focused attention on any little mistake.
And no place i could didnt read about this.
But i think this two deserve to do what they want and hope they will enjoy this next two years (this is reall pleaser for me they will skate two more seasons). So i will try enjoy there skating and maybe need to not read internet. Nothing interesting and new - just the same things since 2007

martyross
04-08-2012, 09:29 PM
ahahah the pic posted by pani made me laugh hard, i should put it on my desktop! those two are definitely fledermaus uber :D
regarding the music choice, Scott contradicted himself a bit,first saying that they were excited for the "vision" the coaches have for them in the next 2 years, then,that they dont have a clue yet about the direction to take. who knows!
im not sure about translating real dance onto the ice. doesnt sound very original. i suspect we'll see something innovative again like in 2009,and then back to classic for the Olys, maybe something related to Russia. after all Zoueva is Russian
and..well, they will get criticized no matter what. people will find negative things to say on any music they chose and thats unavoidable when you are. truely the best. always been so and always will be.
pani, i dont believe you started liking funny face only after worlds :D

pani
04-08-2012, 09:34 PM
pani, i dont believe you started liking funny face only after worlds :D

This is truth :) After i saw all this acting "live" from third row.

iggie
04-08-2012, 09:36 PM
Just wanna give you a big thanks too iggie. Your blog is:respec:I go there often. It's the best and I appreciate all of your hard work.:)


+1 ;)


I am enjoying your blog as well Iggie....great job!!!!

thanks

IoanaC
04-08-2012, 10:04 PM
But i think this two deserve to do what they want and hope they will enjoy this next two years (this is reall pleaser for me they will skate two more seasons). So i will try enjoy there skating and maybe need to not read internet.

I too will enjoy watching them these next two years, no matter what they skate to. Martyross is right, there will always be criticism, you just can't please everyone. But people - skating fans in general - have such high expectations from them precisely because they are such outstanding talents. It would be a shame not to tap into some unexplored ressources, which are there, in them. That doesn't mean the fans won't love them regardless of their choice of programs.:)

pani
04-08-2012, 10:13 PM
I too will enjoy watching them these next two years, no matter what they skate to. Martyross is right, there will always be criticism, you just can't please everyone. But people - skating fans in general - have such high expectations from them precisely because they are such outstanding talents. It would be a shame not to tap into some unexplored ressources, which are there, in them. That doesn't mean the fans won't love them regardless of their choice of programs.:)

Do you want they will use "Carmina Burana"? :D I dont.
If they will use something like this i could imaging how this haters start talking: "Yes, we said before, they could skate only romantic programs" :D
And its funny, but how people, who even didnt skate, could know what skaters need to do? Really - it will be interesting to see there choreo for some skaters programs and i will start dicsuss how bad it was :lol:
I am sure, if we had internet in 1984, there a lot off people, who hated "Bolero". Any person need to put high expectations on thereselves, but not on other persons.
Sorry, but i really tired from this discussion. When other teams show the same elements during 10 years its OK, but V-M need to show every year something out of this world :D
If you dont like - turn off TV or didnt go to watch FS competitions.

aka_gerbil
04-08-2012, 10:34 PM
regarding the music choice, Scott contradicted himself a bit,first saying that they were excited for the "vision" the coaches have for them in the next 2 years, then,that they dont have a clue yet about the direction to take. who knows!

I don't think what Scott said about vision vs. music is necessarily contradictory. They can have some long-term vague ideas about what they want to do, but have not made any specific choices regarding music, etc. yet. So, they could very well have a vision at this point, but still be struggling with the finer details (i.e. exactly what they want to do, exactly what piceces of music, etc.)

IoanaC
04-08-2012, 10:42 PM
Sorry, but i really tired from this discussion. When other teams show the same elements during 10 years its OK, but V-M need to show every year something out of this world :D
If you dont like - turn off TV or didnt go to watch FS competitions.

Hey, no need to turn on me, I'm as big an "uber" as you can get. I will happily watch them do crossovers all day long. I was just explaining that, when you're the best, expectations are something you have to face. It may not be fair, but it's true. No one is out to get Tessa and Scott (well, except for the D/W ubers:D). They are very much appreciated for their obvious qualities even by those who dislike their programs.

And no, I don't want them to skate to Carmina Burana. But I would love for them to pick a piece of modern, yet powerful music for next season. Something that would fill an arena. Not sure a jazzy-bluesy piece could do that...

lavenderblue
04-08-2012, 10:45 PM
Do you want they will use "Carmina Burana"? :D I dont.
If they will use something like this i could imaging how this haters start talking: "Yes, we said before, they could skate only romantic programs" :D
And its funny, but how people, who even didnt skate, could know what skaters need to do? Really - it will be interesting to see there choreo for some skaters programs and i will start dicsuss how bad it was :lol:
I am sure, if we had internet in 1984, there a lot off people, who hated "Bolero". Any person need to put high expectations on thereselves, but not on other persons.
Sorry, but i really tired from this discussion. When other teams show the same elements during 10 years its OK, but V-M need to show every year something out of this world :D
If you dont like - turn off TV or didnt go to watch FS competitions.

Out of curiosity, is there a way to express the sentiment "I would be interested in a program like [insert music/rhythm concept]" that you would not consider offensive?

Genuinely curious.

The Accordion
04-08-2012, 10:46 PM
I am sure, if we had internet in 1984, there a lot off people, who hated "Bolero".

I often think about this exact same thing! And I laugh sometimes imagining the comments of the haterz!

clarie
04-08-2012, 10:50 PM
I had to :lol: at the picture in the K&C of Tessa and Scott and coaches. They may have been ticked off because they couldn't say "I told you so" with regards to V/M's choice of music this year. I don't think FF would have been the coach's choice at all, but totally V/M's. ;). However, V/M got their way this year and will probably go with suggestions their coaches make for the coming season. Think? Or S/Z just didn't have a chance to react at that moment, or perhaps they didn't want to alienate Meryl and Charlie by being too celebratory at that point. Hoo nose!!!

martyross
04-08-2012, 11:11 PM
well about absurd or nasty criticisms, in internet sometimes you cant be sure if its a DW uber who is talking. in case it is,it's something psychologically understandable. the more you feel threatened, the more you bash. you dont give the team any credit, you just pick on it for everything. because if you admit to yourself that there's something good about them, you start fearing that your favorite couple might be inferior in that respect. here's why people criticize no matter what. truth hurts a lot :D but i keep wondering, there are a lot of fans or uber of DW on fs boards. where are all the canadian TS Ubers?? are there canadian forums or something?