PDA

View Full Version : How should USFS handle Worlds selections?



Pages : [1] 2

haribobo
03-31-2012, 10:30 PM
I think the Pairs and Dance results were good considering the competition. Ashley did great and the men were ok. But our 2nd ladies spot selection seems misguided the last 2 years in a row....I think a big part of the problem is reputation judging at Nationals allowing a sub-par skate from highly regarded skaters on an obvious downhill trend to earn silver at Nationals. What would be your suggestion? Is there a fair way to prevent this fiasco from occurring a 3rd year in a row?

l'etoile
03-31-2012, 10:42 PM
Nationals + international results. Just look at Japan. They've manged three tickets in both singles disciplines for several years in a row.

It's only logical.

Vash01
03-31-2012, 10:46 PM
I picked nationals plus local USFS skate off in Feb/March (except in the Olympic year) because two years in a row we saw a medal winner at nationals not skate well at worlds, with a possible injury. There are 2 months between the nationals and worlds. At least part of the selection criteria should come from something in between. I would have voted for 4CC, but there are just 3 spots for 4CC, so a lot of capable skaters may miss the opportunity.

There may be yet another way.

If there is a way to combine GP results, US nationals, and 4CC, and if there is a close competition for a certain spot, use a skate off 3 weeks before worlds.

Jarrett
03-31-2012, 10:49 PM
Same as always, just stop holding up skaters.

PDilemma
03-31-2012, 10:57 PM
I think the answer, derived from several other threads, is Gracie Gold.

That is, after all, the answer to everything here.

Cloudy_Gumdrops
03-31-2012, 11:05 PM
I think it's fine using nats as the main qualifier, but the judges need to start marking exactly what they see and quit holding up skaters with PCS.

International results should have weight as well, esp. if things are close or a known headcase is a medalist.

fenway2
03-31-2012, 11:11 PM
Same as always, just stop holding up skaters. ding ding ding We have a winner.

Judge what happens on the ice at nationals. And shame on whoever downgraded Zhang's 3/3 in the short program.

demetriosj
03-31-2012, 11:22 PM
ding ding ding We have a winner.

Judge what happens on the ice at nationals. And shame on whoever downgraded Zhang's 3/3 in the short program.

makes too much sense!

Vash01
03-31-2012, 11:40 PM
Same as always, just stop holding up skaters.

I don't believe either Jeremy or Adam were held up at the nationals.

Ashley was not held up either. It was close between Alissa and Caroline at the nationals. Agnes did not take advantage of the opportunity. I don't see it as a 'skater was held up' situation.

Pairs- Based on how they skated, the two right pairs were picked and the world results confirmed that.

Ice dance- Nobody in their sane mind will say the D&W were held up. There could be some disagreement in the 3rd and 4th place, but they were not a factor at worlds.

To sum it up, I don't see how that statement in quotes applies.

Jammers
03-31-2012, 11:49 PM
Deciding the World team at Nationals worked for over 50 years i don't think somehow it's not working now. We just don't have dominate Lady skaters at the moment that can get it done on the world stage consistently. They are all mostly the same hot and cold and who knows what you are going to get at any one time.

Jayar
04-01-2012, 12:12 AM
Deciding the World team at Nationals worked for over 50 years i don't think somehow it's not working now. We just don't have dominate Lady skaters at the moment that can get it done on the world stage consistently. They are all mostly the same hot and cold and who knows what you are going to get at any one time.

It's not just the ladies. It's also the men. Rippon underperformed in Nice.

bek
04-01-2012, 12:22 AM
Deciding the World team at Nationals worked for over 50 years i don't think somehow it's not working now. We just don't have dominate Lady skaters at the moment that can get it done on the world stage consistently. They are all mostly the same hot and cold and who knows what you are going to get at any one time.

Fifty years ago a lot of the sport was decided by figures, and figures didn't change all that much did it, its not like a jump. The sport now seriously looks at underrotations now too. Second the US was a lot deeper back than they are now...

I for the most part like the Nationals idea, but I think it wouldn't hurt to look at other competitions, and it also wouldn't hurt to look at how the people are right before Worlds, perhaps US nationals should be moved closer to worlds.

Jammers
04-01-2012, 12:35 AM
Rippon is never going to be champion. He just doesn't skate with the power or speed needed and his jumps are rather small. Add the fact that he can't do a 3axel and probably won't master a quad i don't see him doing much better. Hopefully the kids coming up can do better because Abbott and Rippon are not the answer.

jlai
04-01-2012, 03:16 AM
Ashley was not held up either. It was close between Alissa and Caroline at the nationals. Agnes did not take advantage of the opportunity. I don't see it as a 'skater was held up' situation.

To sum it up, I don't see how that statement in quotes applies.

US nationals are known to have overgenerous callers who don't ding URs, flutzes, etc etc adequately, and judges who save the highest PCS for the last skaters.

On top of that, US saves the top short program skaters #1-3 as the last three skaters in the long program. That means a considerable advantage in skating order and PCS, more so than ISU competitions (in which short program winners can skate first in the last group of 6, like Leonova in Nice).

If I were an inconsistent skater, all I needed was pull off a good short that places top 3, and I would be getting decent PCS because I would be skating in the last 3 in the last flight. Even if I land only 3 triples and skate cautiously. So if I were incosnistent, I'd put considerable effort in training the short because that matters so much at US nationals.

If you notice, in the men's event at US nationals, the short program winner --who skates last for the last few years -- has always won the event. There's also some generous marking for Agnes Z, Flatt, and Czisny who skated last in 2012, 2011 and 2009 also.

On top of that, I also think US skating fans are sentimental, and sometimes we feel for the skaters who have been around so long, want them to succeed so badly, that when they do skate well, we (skating jduges are fans too) throw them huge marks. e.g. Zhang at this nationals. Wang should have beaten Zhang, Agnes, and even Czisny in the free skate if their faces were blanked out and we didn't know who's skating.


I think it's fine using nats as the main qualifier, but the judges need to start marking exactly what they see and quit holding up skaters with PCS.

International results should have weight as well, esp. if things are close or a known headcase is a medalist.

I think past competitions have some weight but only the one closest to worlds should count (like GPF or 4CC). Czisny did well at her 2 GPs but that had no relation to how she skated at worlds, as results indicated. The downward trend started at GPF and went on from there.

Same for Vanessa Lam. She had good JGP but a combination of poor JGPF and so so nationals should have taken her out of the running for junior worlds. (And her poor showing at JW shows it).

johndockley92
04-01-2012, 03:51 AM
Same as always, just stop holding up skaters.

Agree, I can understand holding up a skater to GET to nationals, but can never understand holding up a skater once they're there.

I would like a 4CC skate off though, in men, ladies and pairs where we only have 2 spots, send 3 to 4CC and put the 4CC results into GREAT consideration when selecting the team, however i feel that first place always deserves a world seed, so really it'd just be between 2nd and 3rd.