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Skittl1321
03-26-2012, 02:22 PM
If I could've extended my 90 yr-old grandfather's life by ten years, I would've. If I could've extended my 85 yr-old grandmother's life by ten years, I would've.

This is the kind of mindset I fear will be on Obamacare's end-of-life boards (or as I call them -- "death panels"). No one life or one age group should be valued more than another. God help us all that life should mean so little.

-Bridget

Oh that's absurd. And death panels aren't going to exist. I don't think life means little, I just don't think death is the worst possibility for someone who is old. (I won't say 'very old' again, but you can't argue he has lead a full life.)

I'm clearly not the only person who questioned a heart transplant at his age, because there are many articles across the internet about it. Here's one: http://vitals.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/25/10855120-cheney-too-old-for-transplant-bioethicist-weighs-in
Apparently it IS unusual to get a heart transplant at this age, and with other health concerns.

If it was a procedure that wasn't limited to one person, I'd be all for it. I think if a person has a will to live, they should get to try. However, Mr. Cheney receiving this heart COULD (but we have no way of knowing) mean that a younger person who is also a tissue match was unable to get one. Many people, young and old, die while waiting for organs. And I truly believe it is more of a travesty for a young father to die, leaving children, than an older person who leaves grown children (though I recognize that that is still incredibly hard.)

There are many of my relatives who I wish could have lived longer. I never met one of my grandmothers, she died very young. I miss many relatives terribly, but for most of them- I wouldn't extend their life. Their quality of life right before their death was minimal. It was hard to lose every one of them, but I think there is dignity and peace in death. My grandfather in law made that choice himself. He decided not to go on chemo for the fourth time. To me, that isn't "giving up" as someone else said, even though he was always a strong man and probably could have beat it again. It is recognizing that being barely strung along isn't 'living'.


I don't know how this applies to Mr. Cheney. Perhaps he will have an excellent quality of life with his new heart, and live a long time more, contributing to the world, and enjoying the company of his family. I'm not condemning the elderly to early death. I'm merely questioning a rare-organ transplant, and I'm not the only one.

cruisin
03-26-2012, 02:45 PM
^^ As someone else said, maybe you'd see it differently if you were 71. And, maybe, eventually you will. My husband is 69, just two years younger than Cheney. He is, certainly not, a very old man. If he were in Cheney's situation, I would certainly hope he would not be struck off the list, due to age.

agalisgv
03-26-2012, 04:38 PM
If I could've extended my 90 yr-old grandfather's life by ten years, I would've. If I could've extended my 85 yr-old grandmother's life by ten years, I would've. Who wouldn't?

The question is if you only have one liver, and ten people who need it to live and who are all tissue matches for the liver, whom do you pick to receive it and why?

The policy options I quoted above came from Pres. Bush's bioethics committee, btw. So this isn't really a partisan issue.
This is the kind of mindset I fear will be on Obamacare's end-of-life boards (or as I call them -- "death panels"). The 'end of life' planning aren't boards that mandate restricting care, but rather require Medicare to pay for the time doctors spend in coming up with advanced care directives for their patients. Instead of waiting until a crisis occurs, doctors are supposed to broach the topic about advanced directives while patients are still clear-minded, and to share with their patients all the treatment options so patients can decide how they wish to handle their healthcare. IOW, care for the elderly isn't being restricted, it's actually being expanded by those end-of-life planning panels.
Under the rule, doctors can provide information to patients on how to prepare an “advance directive,” stating how aggressively they wish to be treated if they are so sick that they cannot make health care decisions for themselves.

...Dr. Stacy M. Fischer, an assistant professor at the University of Colorado School of Medicine, who found that “end-of-life discussions between doctor and patient help ensure that one gets the care one wants.” In this sense, Dr. Fischer said, such consultations “protect patient autonomy.” http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?pagewanted=all

You would think people would appreciate being able to make their own decisions regarding their care rather than have it forced on them by family members and/or hospital ethics committees (which is what frequently happens now).

IceAlisa
03-26-2012, 04:58 PM
While 71 is not that old these days, everything depends on the quality of life the transplant would provide. True, Mr. Cheney would have to be on immonosuppressants for the rest of his life and these increase the risk for cancer. But his chances are likely good to enjoy another 10 years pr so of what should be a reasonably good quality of life. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Peaches LaTour
03-26-2012, 07:01 PM
So very many tasteless jokes are coming to mind here.....


B i n g o :lol:

Anyway, kudos to the the family who donated their loved-ones heart. What an incredible act of love and generosity.

Okay, I don't want to make anybody unhappy with my comments so I have edited my post. Am I still allowed to compliment the donor family, Beefcake, or does that offend you as well?

Emason - got a big laugh out of your familial longevity comments! In my father's family, if you can make it through the month of December, you will probably make it through the remainder of the year. About 99% of my father's family (including my father himself) have died in December as a family history hunt of 100 years proved.

Beefcake
03-26-2012, 07:04 PM
The burning need to preface "I hate [X's politics]" even when "wishing" a fellow human being his survival and recovery seems so disingenuous.

I'll just say: "get well soon, Mr. Cheney".

(ETA: I'm not referring to Peaches' hateful post, above, which is in a disgusting category of its own, and may end up requiring that this thread move to PI.)

BittyBug
03-26-2012, 07:23 PM
The question is if you only have one liver, and ten people who need it to live and who are all tissue matches for the liver, whom do you pick to receive it and why?And the related question is if you only have a limited amount of money to spend on health care, how do you allocate it across the population to best benefit the most people?

A broader discussion on this topic would be venturing into PI territory, but most of us seem to act as though there's a limitless supply of money to spend on health care. There isn't. And the sooner we as a society acknowledge that and start making some (difficult) decisions, the better. Everyone bitches about the cost of health care, but when it comes to themselves or their loved ones most want no expense spared. You can't have it both ways.

Andora
03-26-2012, 09:00 PM
I'm amazed the tasteless jokes never actually made it *to* the thread. That's impressive, but one immediately came to mind when I read the news. :shuffle: (Said joke didn't wish ill-will on Cheney, at least)

Great news for Cheney and his family.


(ETA: I'm not referring to Peaches' hateful post, above, which is in a disgusting category of its own, and may end up requiring that this thread move to PI.)

I missed Peaches' post, but I'm not sure why hers would necessitate a move to PI, and not John 3-17. I'm honestly surprised this thread didn't immediately warrant a move, actually. :P Impressive.