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agalisgv
03-26-2012, 05:26 AM
I thought chantastic was a meant to be a compliment especially considering that the person I recall making it up is a major Chan fan :shuffle:


:slinkaway


Ah well, I said it before, but I'll say it again. The men's competition has been focused on trash-talking Russians for so long, I think it's pretty nifty that Chan has been able to step in and bring the drama back home to Canada :D

What I recall about Slutskaya was the ABS under many people's usernames in the lead-up to 2006. It stood for Anything But Slutskaya.

elle123
03-26-2012, 05:35 AM
If people have resentment for Chan its because there's the feeling that he doesn't even have to skate well.

I get why people get frustrated but why is the hate aimed at Patrick instead of the judges? How is it Patrick's fault that the judging is the way it is?

My take on it is that judging changed (in regards to reducing the deductions in failed attempts of the quad) to move the sport forward and encourage more skaters to put the quad in their programs. I respect Patrick a great deal because even with his "inflated" scores, he still worked hard to include the quad in his repertoire and since he has, it seems more skaters are working to include it as well (coincidental or not).

I don't think even his harshest critics can dispute the difficulty of his programs. I agree that he's not the only skater that seems to garner criticism and I think a part of the problem is how we all like to crucify skaters for saying something that they probably didn't even mean in the context that is being implied.

Being a fan of a figure skating should be about enjoying the athletes you love, not hating the ones you don't like.

jlai
03-26-2012, 05:37 AM
I think the real purpose of the article is in the article itself:


And Chan trains in the U.S., as do Canada’s other current stars, Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir, which makes casual contact much more difficult for media types looking for an easy story on a slow day.

I'm rereading Pride and Prejudice now, and for a moment, I can see Mr. Collins writing something like this (Just imagine Chan is Lady De Bourgh)

mossop
03-26-2012, 05:40 AM
:eek: HATE thread. I am out. :scream:

walei
03-26-2012, 05:44 AM
If people have resentment for Chan its because there's the feeling that he doesn't even have to skate well. Irina and Tara DID. Even Plushenko as much as people may have disliked his style, would go out there and deliver the goods, and the few times he didn't, he paid. (See 3 of the World titles Yagudin won, and 2002 and 2010 Olympics) Same goes for Yagudin.


This is why us Chan fans feel that the hate is so unfounded. When Chan won with a sub par skate, the field is relatively weak and his competitors also couldn't deliver. Chan's TES base mark is just mad high and when he falls he still manages to rotate the jumps to get salvageable marks.

Chan has never won with falls over a clean Takahashi.

Aussie Willy
03-26-2012, 06:29 AM
Moreso than Plush? Moreso than Flatt? Moreso than DomShabs? Moreso than Slutskaya? Moreso than Harding? Moreso than Lipinski?

A comment was made that criticism was directed to the way he was judged and not just personal comments. I made a comment that there were many comments directed towards comments Chan has made.

I was only commenting on those comments directed at Chan. Wasn't even saying that he got more negative comments than any other skater.

Okay I used the word "comment" 8 times in that post. Anyone want to raise me? Or comment on the use of the word "comment"?

agalisgv
03-26-2012, 06:39 AM
AW--I was continuing the discussion where 4rkids said she couldn't recall another skater who has garnered as much venom as Chan in the ten years she's been at FSU, and you said you had to agree with that. I should have quoted that post specifically.

4rkidz
03-26-2012, 06:46 AM
A comment was made that criticism was directed to the way he was judged and not just personal comments. I made a comment that there were many comments directed towards comments Chan has made.

I was only commenting on those comments directed at Chan. Wasn't even saying that he got more negative comments than any other skater.

Okay I used the word "comment" 8 times in that post. Anyone want to raise me? Or comment on the use of the word "comment"?


AW--I was continuing the discussion where 4rkids said she couldn't recall another skater who has garnered as much venom as Chan in the ten years she's been at FSU, and you said you had to agree with that. I should have quoted that post specifically.

So really you were just commenting on the comment ;)

bek
03-26-2012, 07:00 AM
This is why us Chan fans feel that the hate is so unfounded. When Chan won with a sub par skate, the field is relatively weak and his competitors also couldn't deliver. Chan's TES base mark is just mad high and when he falls he still manages to rotate the jumps to get salvageable marks.

Chan has never won with falls over a clean Takahashi.

He won a free skate where Daisuke had ONE fall and the rest of his skate was beautifully done. And Patrick had more than one major mistake. It was just wrong and a slap in the face to Daisuke and a lot of fans.. While Patrick may have better skating skills, Daisuke has his merits over Chan, even when both are perfectly clean.. Let alone when Patrick's making multiple errors.

I can live with one fall on a quad if everything else is perfect, I think a lot of us can. What a lot of us can't live with is a fall on a quad, than a fall on a triple axel or another, jump, and then stumbles, and maybe a fall on footwork, and still huge scores.

And yes Patrick has really difficult programs etc. But once again can Kozuka who probably skating skils wise is the second best skater in the world, get away with falling multiple times in his program and still win competitions. No. And as such he himself cannot risk putting in all kinds of jumps he cannot do consistently because he will get hit PCS wise. Patrick knows he can risk it because the judges won't hit him, and thats the kernal of unfairness here. That means Chan is more likely to for 3 quads and two triple axels in his program when lets all talk about how consistent Patrick is with that layout. Where as Kozuka, he's really not going to go for 2 quads in his long program because he knows the jump isn't that consistent and his PCS will get hit if he misses up. So ie Chan then gets guaranteed not only the PCS boost but the basemark boost.

If Chan fans can't understand why that's unfair, I don't know what to say. Thats why the sport needs to start mandating hits in PCS for poorly executed programs. It will lead to a far more even playing field, and while rewarding risks will also tell skaters you better do what you can do somewhat consistently (too).

The anger too is that the judges aren't even consistent in what they do. Chan gets the marks, Kozuka doesn't. Chan IS more charismatic, but I don't think he's that much more so. Neither are as charismatic as Daisuke. But that only hurts Kozuka.

Vash01
03-26-2012, 07:15 AM
I do think there is a lot of personal criticism directed towards him as well, it is not just judging issues. Particularly about comments he has made.

As I recall, those early comments deserved criticism. I have not heard similar comments from him in a while, and therefore haven't read criticism of his comments. He is not the only one whose comments were criticized, however. Plushenko, Weir, even Ashley Wagner were pummeled for making unpopular comments.

There seems to be a lot of anger any time there is any criticism of Chan's skating or comments, or his scores, or anything related to him (like this article). I don't recall that kind of mass reaction about- for example- Plushenko, who I still consider the most hated skater on this board, Irina (she had her haters) and a few others. Interestingly, usually when these skaters did not deliver, they were not given winning marks.

Aussie Willy
03-26-2012, 08:42 AM
So really you were just commenting on the comment ;)
Most definately. :)

Zemgirl
03-26-2012, 08:49 AM
I do think there is a lot of personal criticism directed towards him as well, it is not just judging issues. Particularly about comments he has made.
Well, if someone makes derogatory statements about other competitors, mocks their programs, criticizes the content they're doing, complains about their scores, refers to them as poor examples, etc. - all things that Chan has done in the past - then I think discussion and criticism of such comments is well deserved. Chan has avoided such statements more recently, but then the Reuters interview from earlier this season didn't help matters, either, even before it was taken out of context.

Re complaints about judging, I think Chan, being sort of a picture-perfect IJS skater, has come to represent the scoring system for many people - and at least in some cases, criticism of his scores is more about the system than about his skating and should be phrased as such.


I'm rereading Pride and Prejudice now, and for a moment, I can see Mr. Collins writing something like this (Just imagine Chan is Lady De Bourgh)
:lol: And Mr. Chan's character has been celebrated for its frankness... I think Mr. Collins has a certain uberish quality but probably lacks the imagination to write something so colorful.

Japanfan
03-26-2012, 10:40 AM
2010 Skate Canada. He fell three times in the short (on the 4t, 3a, and in the straight line step sequence) and once in the free skate, finishing ahead of Oda and Rippon.

If you are counting mistakes in both programs, you also need to count the competitors mistakes in both programs. Did Oda and Rippon go clean in both the SP and LP?

Emdee
03-26-2012, 10:49 AM
Zemgirl.... so we should be criticizing Abbott as he mocked Chan's scores.

The problem with most skaters which does not apply to Chan is that once they fall they derail - all other elements are sub par.

Chan is able to bounce from his falls and continue his other elements to achieve the marks.

Zemgirl
03-26-2012, 11:08 AM
so we should be criticizing Abbott as he mocked Chan's scores.
Well, haven't some people been doing exactly that?

I don't believe my post included the suggestion that Abbott should never be criticized for what he says/does. Also, I don't recall mockery so much as criticism, and it's not been a repeated pattern as it was with Chan in the past. But sure, if a public figure chooses to make controversial statements, I see nothing wrong with criticizing that person.


The problem with most skaters which does not apply to Chan is that once they fall they derail - all other elements are sub par.

Chan is able to bounce from his falls and continue his other elements to achieve the marks.
That is not true. I mean, it is true in some cases but not always as you imply. I've seen other skaters recover from falls without much effect on the program, and I've seen Chan take a while to get back into his skating. Not to mention, even a quick recovery isn't very helpful if we're talking about multiple falls.

Japanfan - I don't really remember 2010 SC, but looking at the protocols, Rippon has no -3 element in either segment, so I assume he did fairly well? I think Oda fell once.