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museksk8r
03-25-2012, 06:46 PM
Seems to me that Chan is one of the mostly highly disliked top skaters of all time.

Seems to me the top skaters who receive the most unfavorable criticisms and opinions are the ones who have the most melodramatic, over-defensive fans. Not everyone has to be hopelessly ga-ga over your favorite skater just because you are and because you say no one is more talented than them and they will always win and be the best, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There is this attitude from this type of fan of "treat my favorite skater with kid gloves while I nonchalantly trash yours" and they post as if their opinions are facts; the hypocrisy knows no bounds! :blah::2faced::rolleyes::rollin::slinkaway

martyross
03-25-2012, 07:02 PM
what does "Toughest Six Inches" mean?

Zemgirl
03-25-2012, 07:14 PM
Chan does not come with a kitten seal of approval (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0WQ7_xlTt8). Thus, Chan < Takahashi.


Seems to me that Chan is one of the mostly highly disliked top skaters of all time.
Of all time? Are you serious?

I think often times successful skaters will be the target of more attention, including negative attention. In recent years, we've seen that happen with Plushenko, Lysacek and Joubert - and that's just in the men's!

Chan has given multiple foot-in-mouth interviews and statements during his career, and has justly been called out for some of his comments over the years. In this case, it's hardly his fault that some overexcited journalist decided to present him as SuperChan the Savior of Skating, but making fun of a silly article is not the same as disliking a skater, and it's certainly not hate. Bad writing should be ridiculed.

overedge
03-25-2012, 09:02 PM
Must be the cold weather... or Candian's own version of Linsanity about an Asian dude doing well that they don't know what to do with.

:rolleyes: So somebody writes a stupid article about Chan and suddenly that's Canadian prejudice against "Asian dudes"? You have no idea what you're talking about.

agalisgv
03-25-2012, 09:20 PM
Seems to me that Chan is one of the mostly highly disliked top skaters of all time. While I think some of Chan's comments over the years have been......unfortunate :shuffle:, at this point I think the biggest issue some have is with Chan's supporters--not Chan himself.


jmho


ETA: And IMO, I would say Rachel Flatt incurred far more wrath from folk than Chan ever has. And Flatt didn't even trash-talk anyone :shuffle:

aftershocks
03-25-2012, 09:22 PM
Which some may consider the equivalent of verbal diarrhea. My Pepto-Bismol (TM) equivalent henceforth - PLONK.

I love you too, Val! Hope the PB therapy is working for you. I truly feel for the dreadful “dripping” discomfort you say you are experiencing, but then again there are plenty of remedies available. What was worse, Milton’s priapic prose about PC or my rambling deconstructions? Or perhaps like Proustable (who I admire for being reasonable, honest and levelheaded) you didn’t read all of Milton’s “opinions.” Or maybe you didn’t read anything but the excerpts I posted. And that might have been enough to start your stomach rumbling. Well, but if it was just my “indulgent ramblings,” that had you running to the medicine cabinet, surely by now you must be feeling a lot lighter and freer having flushed the dregs of what alilou calls “such conviction” down the toilet.


It's just another excuse for the Chan haters to have a field trip. If this article was about Dai, I bet the reaction would be so difference. I guess hater's gonna hate.

:eek: You must be kidding! Anyone in their "right" mind who had the nerve to write about Daisuke like Milton has about Chan would surely be hunted down and dragged off in handcuffs, or better yet mauled by very very big kitties.

Are you taking another break from PC uber thread? Where, btw, I see that you were somewhat reprimanded for gratuitously casting aspersions onto Jeremy Abbott simply because he responded to press queries asking him how he thinks he “stacks up” against Patrick Chan. Jeremy responded in a very reasonable and respectable fashion, and with self-confidence. How would you have preferred Jeremy to respond?

Gosh, jeez … even Patrick himself (despite his humongous and exponentially growing SS) is aware that there are other men skaters on the planet and in the same league who have skills, who have been and are working just as hard as he is – even tho’ Patrick is the only one with the outsize SS that have overtaken the judges and are threatening to devour the entire sport. Cue up the iconic theme to JAWS... ITs ALIVE!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos2MnVxe-c

If you feel this is hating on Patrick, nah it isn't -- just having a bit of fun jabbing at his SS, which believe me can take care of ITself. I’ve been turned off by some things Patrick has said, and then charmed when I’ve seen him speak person-to-person in a down-to-earth casual way. Putting jabs aside for a bit, obviously PC has great SS and wonderful abilities. I don’t think he’s the best at musical interpretation and artistry, but neither is he the worst.

Unfortunately, for whatever reason and due to no fault of Patrick’s own, his SS and his mastery of the quad have been allowed to become the sine qua non of the sport. If everybody feels there’s nothing wrong with that and it’s just fine and dandy, I doubt there would be such a need for all the over-hyping of Patrick, the oversensitivity to criticism of his high scores when he doesn’t skate well, the holding him up on PCS, the over-protectiveness, the ham-handed declarations of how artistic he is. Allow him to breathe, take off the training wheels and let Patrick steer himself. Allow him to develop as a human being and as a complete skater. Let it be a competition, not an automatic 20-pt spread b/c of his SS. (just b/c ITs ALIVE, why must IT continually be fed?)


...[Chan] was quite humble in his interview on the CBC Worlds preview today, said he was very nervous about defending his title and knew had some intense competition...

Great that Chan is "quite humble." His SS are not. Neither are the judges in their assessment. And neither is Milton in the throes of his "six inches" Chanorgasm.

Let the "mid-Olympiad" run-up to the games begin.

Japanfan
03-25-2012, 09:28 PM
Of all time? Are you serious?

I think often times successful skaters will be the target of more attention, including negative attention. In recent years, we've seen that happen with Plushenko, Lysacek and Joubert - and that's just in the men's!


I agree that Plushenko and Lysacek aren't the most popular, though have the impression that Joubert is liked quite well on this board.


While I think some of Chan's comments over the years have been......unfortunate , at this point I think the biggest issue some have is with Chan's supporters--not Chan himself.


Seems to me the major issue is his scores. Some of his comments receive plenty of criticism to, but the comments are usually related to the scores. If he weren't seen to be the judges' favourite, the comments wouldn't generate such vitriol.

agalisgv
03-25-2012, 09:33 PM
Seems to me the major issue is his scores. Some of his comments receive plenty of criticism to, but the comments are usually related to the scores. If he weren't seen to be the judges' favourite, the comments wouldn't generate such vitriol. But I don't recall people disliking *Chan* for that--only critiquing the judges. You specified dislike for Chan himself, and I just don't see that much.

But yes, I do think a fair number of posters think Chan's scores are generally inflated. I think a smaller subset of posters think that's because he was scored unfairly, as opposed to simply how COP works currently. And I think an even smaller subset of posters who think Chan is overmarked think he didn't in the end earn his overall placement.

So most of the discussions that I recall tend to be on whether COP is properly structured at this point to result in the scores they do, and whether judges are judging based on reputation rather than the performance before them. I don't hear a lot about Chan himself, though. Except when Chan gives an unfortunate interview :slinkaway.

And to be fair, many of the same judging criticisms emerged with Slutskaya and Plushenko. I just don't see how Chan is anywhere near one of the most disliked skaters---as I said in my previous post, Rachel Flatt anyone?

overedge
03-25-2012, 09:41 PM
blah blah blah blah blah blah

At least Steve Milton's article was short.

Zemgirl
03-25-2012, 09:42 PM
I just don't see how Chan is anywhere near one of the most disliked skaters---as I said in my previous post, Rachel Flatt anyone?
Not to mention Caydee Denney.

Much of the criticism of Chan's scoring reminds me of how people would react to Carolina Kostner's scores when she went for messy-but-difficult; there are still complaints about her 2008 Worlds silver. Now that she's simplified things but skates clean, it's shifted to her lack of a 3Lz.

bek
03-25-2012, 09:46 PM
I can't help thinking if some skater came around with better skating skills than Patrick (could happen Chan fans) and said skater started winning with 4 falls, a program over a much cleaner Patrick, that a lot of Patrick's fans would be crying foul. I'm imagining now the Canadian press... :lol:

At the end of the day my issue is if all that matters is skating skills, why have things like jumps and spins? Let them all skate around the ice, do moves in the field etc and be done with it.

My other problems the judges are hardly consistent when it comes to PCS. Kozuka, who has fabulous basic skating of his own, is not getting anywhere NEAR those kind of PCS, and others like Daisuke not getting credit for things he does better interpretation/performance.

I actually do think in the end if the elements are close the best skater should really win. But I find the concept of someone winning with four falls in a competition (and people saying someone did more ROTATIONS as justification.. Why even have a competition then?

This is suppose to be a sport and delivering on the ice should matter. IMO. It bothers me that this system they have created says it doesn't. And thats why Chan fans are saying, right? The system says how clean you skate doesn't matter.

I will say that I have a problem with any uber that is so much of an uber that they care more about their skater than this sport in general. I was totally a huge fan of Yu-na Kim, but that didn't mean I thought she deserved to win the Free at 2010 Worlds over Asada, sure Asada had technical issues of her own but Asada's PCS should have been much higher.

This type of thing, when clearly visible MULTIPLE glaring errors aren't causing scores to go down big time is going to destroy the sport.

Especially since when top skaters get such high PCS it means lesser known skaters have very little shot even when they out skate the top skaters. I have a feeling things will change though.

At the end of the day though I do agree that Skating Skills of all the PCS should be the most important thing, and if things are equal, close to it, then yes Chan should come out on top...But when he's falling multiple times-no.

hirshey girl
03-25-2012, 10:18 PM
We have to start SMALL, dear ;).

Guess I'm a bit spolied. ;)

IceAlisa
03-25-2012, 10:30 PM
Not to mention Caydee Denney.

I don't follow pairs but why is she hated? I was really impressed by her free skate performance at Nats this year, teal eye shadows and all.

Proustable
03-25-2012, 10:38 PM
I don't know who Stevedore is, but I don't see Chan as an emotional skater at all. I never feel like crying when I watch Chan skate. Takahashi is the one that can arouse emotion in an audience, but this writer obviously does not think Tak has any artistry at all.

A stevedore is someone who loads/unloads a cargo ship. Essentially, the writer is saying Chan's artistry is so good it makes a tough, grown man cry.


what does "Toughest Six Inches" mean?

The distance between the ears (aka, the brain/mental aspect). Other interpretations abound (and yes, I went there first), but that's what the author intended. Truthfully, I think he's largely right. Patrick's inconsistent, but I don't think he's inconsistent due to mental weakness (strange as it may seem).

foreverkwanfan
03-25-2012, 11:01 PM
Chan is way overhyped and his skating does not live up to the hype.
What I find happens is that Chan gets such overinflated marks in the SP that no one can catch up.
We may as well just give him the gold now so all the other skaters can just fight for silver and bronze.
I would really love a surprise win at worlds, a win no one could have predicted, a come from behind shocker. But, yawn, Chan will win, again.