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Really
04-02-2012, 02:06 AM
Whoops. I'll back off from that. He only fell on his backside once, then.

When I saw the -2 deduction on the protocol I assumed he fell twice. Normally a safe assumption with him.Lovely...bitching and whining about something you haven't seen. Classy...:blah:

IceAlisa
04-02-2012, 02:34 AM
Time/music deduction.

I thought he finished behind the music! But I also thought may be my volume was set too low to hear the end of it.

IceAlisa
04-02-2012, 02:37 AM
Are you some kind of joke? If Dai had won, skating would be a laughing stock. Chan had two clean quads one in combo with a triple, Dai had a two footed quad plus Chan's speed, footwork and ability to use every note in the music are fantastic.

:respec: And I absolutely adore Dai's skating.

Aussie Willy
04-02-2012, 02:41 AM
I don't think the problem is Chan; the problem is a scoring system that emphasizes technical over artistic mastery and that doesn't necessarily reward the cleanest programs. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
It is a sport for fecksake. It should be about who is the best technically first and foremost. That includes the quality of that technical content.

Iceman
04-02-2012, 03:54 AM
If you look at the protocols, the goe's for a jump are too often all over the place, sometimes as outrageously as from minus to zero to positive. I would say the judges are confused too.

walei
04-02-2012, 04:11 AM
I thought he finished behind the music! But I also thought may be my volume was set too low to hear the end of it.

Yeah he finished way behind the music so probably got a time violation deduction. It wasn't the volume though because Patrick said right around the waxel that he knew he was behind and lost concentration which resulted in the splat.

misskarne
04-02-2012, 04:26 AM
Lovely...bitching and whining about something you haven't seen. Classy...:blah:

I did see it. But it was stupid o'clock in the morning here by that time and I could have sworn he fell twice. Then again, on the first watch I also could have sworn Artur managed a 3T-2T instead of 2T-2T - it took a second watch to work it out.

Having since watched it again, no, my opinion does not change. Takahashi should have won.

Aussie Willy
04-02-2012, 09:04 AM
Having since watched it again, no, my opinion does not change. Takahashi should have won.
And many think Chan should have won. Including myself.

There is no denying that both skaters were the best of the field. But as much as I love Takahashi's choreography and there were certainly moments in there that just got to me, I would still have to give Chan the edge because he just never stops from whoa to go and his skating skills are superb.

A judge
04-02-2012, 09:47 AM
Having since watched it again, no, my opinion does not change. Takahashi should have won.

That is positively ridiculous. You should not be posting as you know little about the sport. Take some judging clinics.

If Taka had landed a quad triple perhaps he could have won but not the way he skated.

MoonSet
04-02-2012, 11:34 AM
I don't think MoonSet was just talking about P/E. S/he said Chan's free skate "seemed insecure". I took that to mean Chan's overall basic skating was a bit below what he is capable of, and he should have been scored on what he actually performed that night rather than what he is capable of doing. In addition, MoonSet seemed to argue the P/E wasn't as strong as Dai's, nor was the interpretation (which also would likely affect the CH score too). So basically all the program component scores are being questioned if I'm reading MoonSet correctly.
Absolutly... You understood me correctly... Though I am ready to admit that Transitions/ Footwork or Skating Skills should suffer less from what is done on the particular night than Performance/Execution.

Japanfan
04-02-2012, 11:43 AM
That is positively ridiculous. You should not be posting as you know little about the sport. Take some judging clinics.

If Taka had landed a quad triple perhaps he could have won but not the way he skated.

Chan won fair and square. You can argue that his PCS should have been lower in P/E and perhaps INT and that the two should have been closer numerically. I won't disagree there, but after watching both programs several times, would have to say Taka deserved higher P/E but not INT.

The win was Chan's. I love Daisuke, but he needs more than a completely clean skate to trump Chan - a second quad and few more difficult nuances, like a hop into a spin. Chan's just delivering the most difficult content out there today.

That said, I'd love him to rival Taka in emotion. After his watching his Rach gala performance, I thought that this is music he needs for a free program. More emotion and musicality in those 2 minutes that I have seen from Chan in five years or so.

MoonSet
04-02-2012, 12:11 PM
That is positively ridiculous. You should not be posting as you know little about the sport. Take some judging clinics.

If Taka had landed a quad triple perhaps he could have won but not the way he skated.

There is no need to insult users who don't share your opinion. And besides, read the scores: If Takahashi had added a triple to this quad and got great GOEs he would have gained about 6 points. Of course he had to change the program and cut off one other combination from the end, losing maybe about 2 Points. So 4 Points! Not even close to beat Chan... This is actually not as much as Chan got more for his PCs than Dai.

Maybe Chan deserved to win this competition based on his quads or based on better element scores in the short program but certainly not for the overall impression he left but this is where he clearly got the most points.

A judge
04-02-2012, 04:51 PM
I am not insulting users but I feel that someone should not say that Taki should have won based on the two performances. It makes the board look ridiculous.

agalisgv
04-02-2012, 05:00 PM
What I think is a tad ridiculous is for someone to claim expertise on judging, then say Chan was the decisive victor in the free skate because Dai didn't land a quad triple combo when the TES is virtually equal.

Perhaps some should take a look at the protocols to see that the 5 point difference in scores came from the difference in PCS--not TES.

ETA: Ok, the protocols didn't copy well. But folk can see that pretty clearly for themselves. Considering the two point deduction for Chan came from a mistake on an element which resulted in going overtime, that would mean Dai actually won on the elements in the free skate.

Aussie Willy
04-03-2012, 01:44 AM
The deduction gets taken off the total score, not just the TES score. The TES score for both Chan and Dai were pretty much the same, even after Chan's mistakes which resulted in a lower GOEs for those elements.