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Aussie Willy
03-27-2012, 09:07 AM
^ I would rep you if I could. Excellent Post.

Japanfan
03-27-2012, 09:27 AM
Seriously, I almost vomited. :P Toller's comments. :yikes: :rofl:

I'm totally in agreement with The Accordian that this is exactly the kind of comment that infers Chan hate on this board.

The Globe and Mail is a major Canadian newspaper, the World Championships are about to begin and Patrick Chan is a Canadian star about to defend his title and also breaking records on the world stage.

So a Canadian newspaper promotes a Canadian skater to a Canadian audience. There's something wrong with that? Other country's media don't do that with their own skaters?

Canadian media strives to promote all of its skaters and gives particular attention to the brightest lights because it wants to motivate people to watch the competition. Last I checked, other country's media do exactly the same thing.

theshrew
03-27-2012, 10:28 AM
Even if there are other skaters who have been hated more - it still doesn't change that fact.


Oh yes, you are right but it is really annoying that some of the very same fans who happily contributed, over and over, to the threads where other skaters were subjected to lots of hate and venom, are now the ones outraged that Chan gets the same treatment and are asking the others to be fair,objective and rational :lol:
Shameless hypocrites.

Zemgirl
03-27-2012, 10:52 AM
But there are also an awful lot of people who can't let comments Chan has made go and they cling onto them and bring them up again and again as reasons not to like him or his skating when someone may say something positive about him.
I can't say I agree with your entire post, but you brought up some great points. I do want to address this specifically, though, because I think the issue here is that you have posters arguing that people are picking on Chan and have been doing so for a while, with no good reason. So in that context, I do feel it's okay to point out that Chan has given his critics quite a bit to work with in the past, both on and off the ice.


I'm totally in agreement with The Accordian that this is exactly the kind of comment that infers Chan hate on this board.

The Globe and Mail is a major Canadian newspaper, the World Championships are about to begin and Patrick Chan is a Canadian star about to defend his title and also breaking records on the world stage.
This is my last post on this topic, promise ;)

I think that once something is posted outside the Chan ubers thread, then you should expect a broad range of reactions. And just as I don't drop by the ubers thread to rain on anyone's parade, fans shouldn't expect everyone to share their views outside such threads. That goes for all skaters, not just Chan.

What bothers me about these sort of articles (not to the point of vomiting, happily) is more a matter of tone than content. Sure, Chan is a very good skater - but does that mean he has to be presented as greater than Browning, Cranston etc.? I feel kind of disappointed than Toller Cranston has gotten sucked into that, too. Of course he's entitled to his opinion, but I'm allowed to disagree with it, right? Artistically I don't think Chan is at the level of some of the past Canadian greats, and I don't think he will get there, either.

Twilight1
03-27-2012, 11:56 AM
This is my local paper...and it hurts me to read it so I don't. I usually just read BBC. LMAO! I prefer the gushing to be directed to Virtue & Moir ;)

Dave of the North
03-27-2012, 11:58 AM
Toller loves being outrageous - you all know this don't you?

museksk8r
03-27-2012, 02:03 PM
Oh yes, you are right but it is really annoying that some of the very same fans who happily contributed, over and over, to the threads where other skaters were subjected to lots of hate and venom, are now the ones outraged that Chan gets the same treatment and are asking the others to be fair,objective and rational :lol:
Shameless hypocrites.

This, and this:

Zemgirl: "I think that once something is posted outside the Chan ubers thread, then you should expect a broad range of reactions. And just as I don't drop by the ubers thread to rain on anyone's parade, fans shouldn't expect everyone to share their views outside such threads. That goes for all skaters, not just Chan."

Yes, I totally agree with you, both. I think Chan has some wonderful qualities to his skating; his speed and edges are divine and great for him that he has improved his consistency level over the last couple of years. His level of technical difficulty that he attempts is very impressive. I just will never agree with the opinion that he is so much better than a skater like Takahashi or Abbott, certainly not better enough to outscore them over and over again in PCS like he does. To me, that is just absurd, and the opposite should be happening where they are besting him in that department, IMO! That is more a problem with the judging than Patrick though. *shrugs* I can watch it happen, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I don't ever go into the Patrick Chan gush thread and trash him or his fans though. Patrick and his fans don't hand him all his scores and his titles.

nlyoung
03-27-2012, 02:52 PM
This, and this:
I just will never agree with the opinion that he is so much better than a skater like Takahashi or Abbott, certainly not better enough to outscore them over and over again in PCS like he does.

You acknowledge Chan's speed and edges, but I think you can't emphasize the speed factor enough. This is something that doesn't come across online or on TV. It is also something that impresses judges (who have a similar reaction to Kostner). He also manages to accomplish this speed with tons of stuff going on. As many have already pointed out, you can argue that P/E scores should go down with flawed performances, but the rest is almost always still there. Other skaters may deserve higher scores for what they do, but Chan is also deserving of what he receives in comparison to almost everyone else (aside from those already mentioned).

The Accordion
03-27-2012, 03:29 PM
I think the issue here is that you have posters arguing that people are picking on Chan and have been doing so for a while, with no good reason. So in that context, I do feel it's okay to point out that Chan has given his critics quite a bit to work with in the past, both on and off the ice.


Yes - he has! I have cringed at several things that he has said in his interviews and I am often afraid to read articles because of this! I am not excusing what he has said and I do think slowly but surely he is getting more media savvy. But reporters seem to know if they keep digging they will get something out of him even if they have to take it out of context. Again - not excusing it - just observing.

However, for those who watch interviews in their entirety you can see that he talks in a stream of consciousness kind of way and that if he had slowed down and stopped and thought about it - would likely not have said what he said -or at least not in the exact same way. He has also said many many many kind and flattering things about and has expressed much admiration for many of his competitors.

As far as reasons to criticize what he has done on the ice - I don't really see that. He has made mistakes. I am not familiar with skaters who have not. The falls usually come either on elements he is trying to master or in the middle of his transitions - which are among the most difficult in the world if not the most difficult - and recently in parts where he has been pushing himself in interpretation.

And I have never seen him give up on a program or sell any part of it short because of mistakes.

I think the main reason what he does on the ice is criticized is because some don't think the mistakes are accurately penalized. And Chan has no control over that.

Cherub721
03-27-2012, 04:54 PM
In my opinion it is just this kind of comment people are talking about on here.

1st - Is Toller Cranston not allowed to have an opinion without inducing vomit? Or is he not allowed to be amazed by Chan's skating? Or he is he not allowed to gush?

Are you very familiar with Toller Cranston? He is not exactly understated in anything he says.


Toller is entitled to any opinion he wants. If he can be OTT enough to say seeing Chan skate live would make him want to kill himself, can one not say that this throught is vomit-inducing? Toller is known for being outrageous, and his comments are not to be taken seriously (I'm sure he is serious about what he thinks of Chan's skating, but not the suicide part), so why can't a teasing response be made with :P and :rofl: emoticons clearly indicating that the comment is in good fun?

Is cringing at Toller's comments seriously to be considered a vicious attack on Chan? :rolleyes:


I'm totally in agreement with The Accordian that this is exactly the kind of comment that infers Chan hate on this board.

Well, yes. I highlighted the part of Rafter Fan's post that mentioned Chan haters, and replied with a tongue-in-cheek response, fully identifying myself as a Chan hater.



The Globe and Mail is a major Canadian newspaper, the World Championships are about to begin and Patrick Chan is a Canadian star about to defend his title and also breaking records on the world stage.

So a Canadian newspaper promotes a Canadian skater to a Canadian audience. There's something wrong with that? Other country's media don't do that with their own skaters?

Canadian media strives to promote all of its skaters and gives particular attention to the brightest lights because it wants to motivate people to watch the competition. Last I checked, other country's media do exactly the same thing.

Where did I say anything about Canada?

TDsk8
03-27-2012, 07:50 PM
I still don't get the title the article - what six inches does he conquer?

Yes, very oddly worded :slinkaway but yet :lol:

Iceman
03-27-2012, 08:11 PM
[QUOTE=nlyoung;3519416]You acknowledge Chan's speed and edges, but I think you can't emphasize the speed factor enough. This is something that doesn't come across online or on TV. It is also something that impresses judges (who have a similar reaction to Kostner).

While speed should be noted, it shouldn't be over emphasized or weighted, nor should it impress the judges to the degree they let it affect other elements being judged. After all, it is figure skating, not speed skating. Actually it is, unfortunately, not even figure skating any more.

Are Chan and Kostner so fast that no other skater approaches their speeds.
Having never been to a live competition, on tv and live stream they all seem to be skating in about the same speed range, with some obvious exceptions, of course. From my viewpoint (tv and live stream), I would never have assessed the speed of Chan or Kostner as something exceptional. How fast do they actually skate?

The Accordion
03-27-2012, 08:11 PM
Is cringing at Toller's comments seriously to be considered a vicious attack on Chan? :rolleyes:





If you read my post - you won't find the words "vicious attack" anywhere within.
If I were to read someone speaking equally enthusiastically about a skater I didn't particulary like - I wouldn't want to vomit - I would just respectfully disagree. That's just my approach though.

clarie
03-27-2012, 08:48 PM
[QUOTE=nlyoung;3519416]You acknowledge Chan's speed and edges, but I think you can't emphasize the speed factor enough. This is something that doesn't come across online or on TV. It is also something that impresses judges (who have a similar reaction to Kostner).

While speed should be noted, it shouldn't be over emphasized or weighted, nor should it impress the judges to the degree they let it affect other elements being judged. After all, it is figure skating, not speed skating. Actually it is, unfortunately, not even figure skating any more.

Are Chan and Kostner so fast that no other skater approaches their speeds.
Having never been to a live competition, on tv and live stream they all seem to be skating in about the same speed range, with some obvious exceptions, of course. From my viewpoint (tv and live stream), I would never have assessed the speed of Chan or Kostner as something exceptional. How fast do they actually skate?

Patricks speedier skating was noted by me at SC this year. It was very evident and he covered the ice extremely well.....at this very quick pace. I especially noticed the difference in comparison all the others in the last flight. I guarantee it was not my imagination, it is a fact.

Cherub721
03-27-2012, 09:44 PM
If you read my post - you won't find the words "vicious attack" anywhere within.

Fair enough.


If I were to read someone speaking equally enthusiastically about a skater I didn't particulary like - I wouldn't want to vomit - I would just respectfully disagree. That's just my approach though.

FSU would be boring if everyone were so polite! ;)