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Vash01
03-26-2012, 07:45 PM
They will for sure address the'Chan situation' but what will the naysayers say when he lands his jumps?

They will simply say that he landed his jumps. If he skates well enough to win, nobody has an issue with it. I don't think anyone hates Chan to the extent they don't want him to win even when he skates great.

Vash01
03-26-2012, 07:46 PM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/patrick-chan-looking-to-add-to-skating-legacy/article2381507/email/

Here's another article for all you Chan haters. It's almost as if the writer of this article has read this thread and wrote this just for you. :saint:

I am not a Chan hater. I am a figure skating fan. Does that exclude me from reading the article? Your post certainly points that way.

Rafter
03-26-2012, 07:51 PM
I am not a Chan hater. I am a figure skating fan. Does that exclude me from reading the article? Your post certainly points that way.

:rolleyes: I was directing that to the Chan haters who are posting in this thread.

agalisgv
03-26-2012, 08:03 PM
:rolleyes: I was directing that to the Chan haters who are posting in this thread. Forgive me for being slow, but who exactly does that include then?

I always have a hard time understanding which specific posters people are referring to when "Chan haters" is bandied about :shuffle:

Bournekraatzfan
03-26-2012, 08:47 PM
I agree with some of the other posters.. the Chan hate is palpable.. I have been on these boards since almost the beginning and usually stay out of the trash can.. but hard to avoid the Chan hate.. I can't recall another skater who gathers quite as much venom.. :blah: I've actually met him and he is really, really nice - even the other competitors like him.. I know sometimes he has some foot and mouth issues.. but still I'm not sure what it is about him that tweaks people so :P Especially as he is not responsible for what a writer writes.. or what a Judge - Judges..:confused:

I tend to agree, and in saying this I am not suggesting that we eschew criticism of his skating and the judges. I just don't think that some of Chan's critics are only focusing on the latter.
I also 'met' Chan: ok, I was way too shy to actually say anything so I didn't approach him, but I saw him interacting with a couple of the volunteers at Skate Canada. They asked for a picture with him and he was so sweet and seemed to really appreciate it.

I didn't like the article and found it dismissive of Chan's competitors. I get that this is an opinion piece, but I do wish he could have acknowledged the strength of Chan's rivals a bit more. I am really impressed by the depth in the event, and can't wait to see them this week!

kittyjake5
03-26-2012, 09:11 PM
I dislike the word "haters" it is an ugly term to be thown around at folks.

I am not sure why every Patrick thread turns a battlefield.

Japanfan
03-26-2012, 09:12 PM
But what people are saying is that a program with three falls in it, how can it be considered performed well? That's an oxymoron. That person may still be trying hard to sell said program, but how can people look at said skate and say what a great skate??


Unfortunately Aussie Willie (who is a judge for those who don't know) isn't here to weigh in on the discussion. He has given very interesting and enlightening analyses of PCS marking.

People are unlikely to say that a program with three falls is a great skate, but different falls can impact a program differently. A skater can be up and back into the program quickly or slowly. A skater can still sell the program well despite mistakes, or not.


What people are mad about with the GPF, is Chan getting higher PCS scores than Daisuke when for that performance Daisuke's PCS should have been much higher than Chan's...


I understand that and that you disagree with other skaters getting what you consider overly high PCS on flawed skates (i.e. Yuna at 2010 Worlds).



But when said skater falls that many times have they demonstrated as high of skating skills as when they are not falling? No.


I would say yes. Falls don't always occur because of weak basics. A skater's edge quality is the same if he/she is slightly off balance in the air rotates or falls due to being too near to the boards. SS are the component most likely to stay the same from competition to competition - if they improve or decline, it happens slowly. And the marks should reflect that change, should it occur.



Likewise if a lot of your transtiions are coming out of jumps and you are falling on said jumps, have you demonstrated as good of transitions, as if you had landed your jumps. Once again said answer is no. No you still maybe had more transitions than anyone else and so the marks still could reflect that absolutely, but should the score on transitions be as high as if you want clean-nope.


That depends on whether mistakes cause a skater to miss a transition. Jeremy Abbott is example - he commonly make mistakes but retains his transitions.


Do you see the point I"m getting at. But mainly the point I'm hating is the whole P/E thing. Nobody should be getting 8s or 9s in that score for programs with multiple glaring errors. Not Chan, Not Daisuke, Not Lambiel. Not Yu-na. Its an absolute joke.

Of all the PCS categories, I can see justification for a reduction to P/E. Even if TRAN, SS, CHOREO, and INT are maintained, it is the element most likely to be affected by multiple errors.

But even then, mistakes can affect P/E more or less. The example that comes to mind isn't Chan, but Petrenko when he won Olympic Gold in 1992 with a free skate that had about five mistakes. I really questioned his win, but an argument could be made that he was artistically so far above the rest of the field that he deserved it.

As I keep pointing, superior artistry is always used to defend wins with mistakes. There will always be skaters who are perceived to be overmarked artistically and those who defend the marks.

But I would like to see more thought put into how judges mark PCS when programs are flawed.

berthesghost
03-26-2012, 09:57 PM
I tend to agree with those who say Chan is a very unpopular skater. Just look at the last article: both of the comments in the comment section are negative. And that's probably just the tip of the iceberg, as both of the articles posted here go way out of their way to make excuses on why such a successful and talented skater is unpopular in a country that loves it's skaters dearly.

Iceman
03-26-2012, 10:47 PM
When will someone write an article titled "THE FALL(s) of Chan" ?:rolleyes:

Cherub721
03-27-2012, 12:12 AM
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/more-sports/patrick-chan-looking-to-add-to-skating-legacy/article2381507/email/

Here's another article for all you Chan haters. It's almost as if the writer of this article has read this thread and wrote this just for you. :saint:

Seriously, I almost vomited. :P Toller's comments. :yikes: :rofl:

BigB08822
03-27-2012, 01:04 AM
:rofl: at the title. I know, I am late to the party but I somehow missed this one. I thought it was all about girth, anyway!

Iceman
03-27-2012, 02:40 AM
sorry link to same article in different paper

sap5
03-27-2012, 04:39 AM
I still don't get the title the article - what six inches does he conquer?

The real question is "whose six inches does he conquer?"

triple_toe
03-27-2012, 05:11 AM
I'm guessing Daisuke's :confused: That's what this thread is about right? :biggrinbo

The Accordion
03-27-2012, 08:35 AM
Seriously, I almost vomited. :P Toller's comments. :yikes: :rofl:

In my opinion it is just this kind of comment people are talking about on here.

1st - Is Toller Cranston not allowed to have an opinion without inducing vomit? Or is he not allowed to be amazed by Chan's skating? Or he is he not allowed to gush?

Are you very familiar with Toller Cranston? He is not exactly understated in anything he says.

As far as the hate vs fair criticism argument - people are fooling themselves if they think there isn't an abundance of hatred / venom / the like hurled towards Patrick on pretty much every thread about him - including the uber thread for goodness sake!

Even if there are other skaters who have been hated more - it still doesn't change that fact.

Yes - there are people who merely question his marks particularly in some of the PCS categories and there are people who disagree with the judging system that allows programs with falls to win. And there are people who just don't enjoy his skating or have issues with things he has said. Nothing wrong with any of that and I think very few Chan fans have a problem with that. Of course every skater has the rabid ubers who are super sensitive and overreact to any criticism.

But there are also an awful lot of people who can't let comments Chan has made go and they cling onto them and bring them up again and again as reasons not to like him or his skating when someone may say something positive about him.

There are also people who say that the way judges judge him or the way the system leads to him winning or the way fans admire or "uber" him make it so they can't stand him or his skating. Or they would rather have ABC - anyone but Chan win.

And some of these posters would be okay with Takahashi or Lambiel winning with falls - since they believe their PCS to be so superior that such a scenario makes sense. And because they don't like his performances they seem to believe their opinion to be fact and use words like "soulless" to make their point. But they mock or scoff at the idea that some people consider Chan's PCS to be similarly superior.

When I get to my spring break -(4 days!) I might try to find some time to gather some of these comments all in one place.

I have been a long time Takahashi fan. I think he is one of the most amazing skaters of all time - especially as a performer. But over the past few years I have begun to appreciate Chan just as much and in different ways and now I adore what is amazing about both skaters.

But yes - I guffawed at the suggestion that Takahashi is not in Chan's league performance wise - and it is more than likely that Chan would also guffaw.

But as with Toller - the writer is entitled to his opinion whether we agree or not. And his opinion is not any kind of reflection on Patrick Chan or Canada in general. You know there are people in other countries that think he is pretty amazing.