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jlai
03-13-2012, 10:34 PM
:lol:

Darts.

The judging panel gathers, simultaneously with the skaters' draw for the initial starting order, at a secret non-disclosed location. They take turns drawing numbered darts from a small velvet bag and aiming them at a dartboard in the shape of Sonia Bianchetti's face. The dart that lands closest to her right nostril represents the starting order of the skater who the judging panel will place first. If a dart lands on her right ear, the skater with that starting order will receive questionable < calls; if a dart lands on her left ear, the skater with that starting order will receive benefit-of-the-doubt calls. Because this "judging dart draw" occurs at the same time as the skaters' draw, the judges are unaware of which skater is represented by which dart; therefore, this is considered an unbiased selection procedure untainted by national bias.

The procedures for pairs and dance are a little different: for pairs, the judge must throw two darts concurrently and the distance between the darts is measured and combined with the distance from Bianchetti's right nostril to determine final placements. For dance, two darts are thrown concurrently and the technical panel assigns a level of difficulty to the toss based on the spiral of the darts in the air, and the rest of the judging panel gives a GOE to the beauty of the toss and a PCS to the timing and rhythm of the toss. This information is fed into a computer program written by some computer company based in Michigan, which in turn spits out the final placement for that event.

For Synchro... well, let's just say that it can get bloody. :slinkaway

mia joy
03-13-2012, 10:47 PM
As has been said time and again on this board, Kostner and Lepistö have some of the best basics of any skaters of the CoP era. Those who were booing may have been watching their jumping instead of their skating. The judges look at both.

Judges' favouritism aside, I know you're right, but I find it riddiculous considering these girls (Lepisto in particular) don't even look pretty when they skate (by pretty I mean graceful of course, not appearance-wise). I absolutely hate the way Lepisto skates (skated? has she retired or sth?). My point is that I hate the fact CoP is favouring "blades across the ice" over actually doing eye-pleasing things on ice.

Also, blades matter, but jumps should matter too. I mean, this particular case was a double jump fest from Lepisto. I get she might have nice edges, but for crying out loud, you have to actually be able to land some triples to be a worthy world medalist. At least in my book.

Iceman
03-13-2012, 11:55 PM
quality of blades moving across ice? Judges love that


I didn't realize judges examined a skater's blades and gave them points for that:rofl:

ltnskater
03-14-2012, 12:12 AM
I didn't realize judges examined a skater's blades and gave them points for that:rofl:

Absolutely, if the blades are a little rusty, they get slightly lower GOE. I have seen a skater with neon green tinted blades (well the blades were not green, but the bottom of the boot/skate was, and the metal on the blades reflected that colour, to give the appearance of a greenish tint), that = plus on GOE.

Did I mention that the sizes and length of blades also go into the scores?

overedge
03-14-2012, 12:36 AM
Did I mention that the sizes and length of blades also go into the scores?

Size matters....

julieann
03-14-2012, 01:38 AM
yeah, but can you say that about 2008 world Kostner's second finish, or 2010 world Lepisto's third finish? I heard lots of booing from the crowd who were watching their actrual skating.

But just because they were watching and didn't like the score doesn't mean they understand they rules of the sport.

Aussie Willy
03-14-2012, 01:52 AM
quality of blades moving across ice? Judges love that
Yep after all the responses this one still makes the most sense.

mag
03-14-2012, 01:56 AM
Size matters....

It's not the size that matters it's how you use them ....:rollin:

gkelly
03-14-2012, 03:23 AM
My point is that I hate the fact CoP is favouring "blades across the ice" over actually doing eye-pleasing things on ice.

I think 6.0 judging also often favored blades across the ice over eye-pleasing things on ice. And fans whose eyes were pleased by skaters who didn't win were just as inclined to hate that fact as now under IJS.

But fans at that time were even more inclined to attribute results they disagreed with to politics rather than to a difference in priorities.

magnolia
03-14-2012, 03:50 AM
Judge's favorites are the skaters whose under-rotations and wrong edges aren't called as regularly as other skaters, those who may fall but somehow haven't, and whose pcs is always high regardless of the quality of the actual performance.

mag
03-14-2012, 03:53 AM
Judge's favorites are the skaters whose under-rotations and wrong edges aren't called as regularly as other skaters, those who may fall but somehow haven't, and whose pcs is always high regardless of the quality of the actual performance.

Except that judges don't make edge calls or under rotation calls - that is the job of the tech panel.

barbk
03-14-2012, 04:00 AM
Does anyone want to defend Pluschenko's transition scores? Anyone?

I'm generally less concerned about some skaters being judges' favorites than I am about newer/less well known/unexpectedly good skaters not getting the PCS marks they deserve. At least, not until the second day of the competition. Almost to the point that I wish that the SP scores merely qualified you for the LP, and that you start from scratch at that point. Hopefully with a more appropriate PCS. (This would also have the benefit of putting real pressure on the LP once again.)

pinky166
03-14-2012, 04:52 AM
Your analysis of the Adam/Ross scenarios make no sense to me.

Adam was 7th after the sp at 4CC. He barely missed the bronze. And his PCS should have been 5+ over Ross at Nats. I don't see the favoritism.

Are you kidding? At 4CC, Adam's PCS were a fraction of a point lower than Ross's in the FS, and 7 points lower than the PCS he got for a FS of comparable quality he skated at nationals. Meanwhile Ross's PCS at 4CC were only 2 points below what he received for his FS at Nationals, again of comparable quality. If you have 2 skaters who are both getting 74 for PCS for a good but not spectacular FS performance internationally, and then at nationals one of them gets 76 while the other gets 81 for PCS, again for good but not spectacular FS performances, I'd say the one who gets a 7 point boost from his international PCS and a 5 point margin over a competitor who international judges have deemed his equal with their markings is definitely experiencing some nationals inflation/favoritism.

It's the same deal for Jason Brown getting 75 for his PCS at nationals despite falling 3 times in the FS. Josh Farris's nationals FS was no more of a meltdown and was actually probably less of a meltdown than Jason's and he got 65 for PCS. Then they go to JW, both skate well and get virtually the same PCS of 71-72. So Jason gets a 3 point PCS boost over his clean FS at JW for a meltdown FS at nationals while Josh gets a 6 point PCS decrease over his great FS at JW for a nervy FS at nationals? That's favoritism right there, again between 2 skaters international judges have deemed of equal quality with their markings.

Rippon and Brown are examples of USFS favorites who get big boosts in PCS at nationals. Miner and Farris are not USFS favorites and don't receive the same kind of PCS inflation at nationals. Looking at US nationals results/scores, you would assume that Rippon is superior to Miner and Brown is superior to Farris, while looking at international scores would suggest that Rippon and Miner are equal, and so are Brown and Farris.

Vagabond
03-14-2012, 05:31 AM
Judges' favouritism aside, I know you're right, but I find it riddiculous considering these girls (Lepisto in particular) don't even look pretty when they skate (by pretty I mean graceful of course, not appearance-wise). I absolutely hate the way Lepisto skates (skated? has she retired or sth?). My point is that I hate the fact CoP is favouring "blades across the ice" over actually doing eye-pleasing things on ice.

Also, blades matter, but jumps should matter too. I mean, this particular case was a double jump fest from Lepisto. I get she might have nice edges, but for crying out loud, you have to actually be able to land some triples to be a worthy world medalist. At least in my book.

Did you actually watch Lepistö's programs? Or anyone else's?

Lepistö was one of only four women to land three fully rotated triple jumps in the Short Program (the others being Makarova, Hecken, and Glebova). It's true she did only three triples in the Free Skate, but she got positive GOE on every element in the program, which is more than can be said of four of the five skaters who finished ahead of her in that segment.

And if you absolutely hate the way she skated here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ089W4WUJI), maybe you should stop watching figure skating and start watching some other sport like rhythmic gymnastics. Most fans of figure skating would call it "eye-pleasing."

Lastly, why do you refer to women in their twenties as "girls"? Whether you intend it to be or not, it's very demeaning.

Mafke
03-14-2012, 07:02 AM
Also, with respect to 2008, much of the booing was due to fans' perception that the fourth-place finisher, Yukari Nagano, had landed a triple axel in the Free Skate. The jump was marked as underrotated.


Rewriting history. Nakano's skate was a lot more than the triple axel. Her program was arguably the only ladies lp that competition that was more than the sum of its parts.

As for the axel, highly knowledgeable commentators in real time think the jump is clean (Peggy Fleming, the English Eurosport guys) then the kind of major penalty she got for 'underrotating' is dumb and shortsighted.

Portraying spectator displeasure as ignorant fans is plain disrespectful.

And Kostner may be fast as the dickens but I hate her posture (and tendency so stumble around awkwardly).