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View Full Version : Was It A Mistake To Send Czisny & Abbott to the Challenge Cup?



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olympic
03-12-2012, 02:20 PM
I think maybe a way for Alissa to pull herself together would be to strip down her LP - nothing harder than a 3z and 3 jump combo. Repeat the jumps she's best at. This would be similar to Caro's strategy over the past year and a half, and look how well that worked out for her!

Skittl1321
03-12-2012, 02:34 PM
It sure seems like it may have been- but it depends on the athlete. If they took something away from this competition that will help them prepare for World's then it was not a mistake.

Frau Muller
03-12-2012, 02:40 PM
I think maybe a way for Alissa to pull herself together would be to strip down her LP - nothing harder than a 3z and 3 jump combo. Repeat the jumps she's best at. This would be similar to Caro's strategy over the past year and a half, and look how well that worked out for her!

Indeed. Caro made the Worlds podium last year, even with the watered-down content, because Caro's PSC scores (basic skating quality) are so high. Alissa is another 'high PSC lady.'

I was re-watching my DVD of recent Nationals and noticed how, just before she takes her starting position for a program, Alissa practices her arm/hand positions for jumps; she does this in s-l-o-w motion whereas every other lady does this sort of thing quickly, with a snap motion. Doesn't this tell it all?

Sylvia
03-12-2012, 03:15 PM
I think Alissa said it would be too expensive to stay and train in Europe during the interim period, and anyway she prefers to train at home in Detroit.
Actually, fans were discussing these points as possible reasons, not Alissa herself.


She also said the traveling back and forth wasn't a big deal as it was "only Europe." Not sure if this is the "well known" reason geod mentioned, but it's what I had heard/read.

Those reasons and Jason needed to return to his other skaters that he coaches. I can't recall where I read it....maybe the same place you did.
I think you two may be remembering what was posted/being discussed in the U.S. Ladies thread (posts #763-772) before Challenge Cup, along with an IN preview article excerpt I posted: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=81991&page=39


It sure seems like it may have been- but it depends on the athlete. If they took something away from this competition that will help them prepare for World's then it was not a mistake.
Well put! Only Abbott and Czisny and their coaches can really know the answer to this. And I'm sure we fans can -- and will -- debate this particular question again after Worlds. ;)

Cheylana
03-12-2012, 03:36 PM
^^ I guess the reasons for Alissa returning to Detroit aren't so well known, then. :lol:

rhumba
03-12-2012, 04:02 PM
1.It's a mistake for Alissa and Jeremy competing in Europe 2 weeks before Worlds. I believe it was the coaches's decision, not USFS. Coach should be the one to be blamed. If they wanted to do it to gain confidence, that's another story, but it did not look that way. By the time they get home after poor performance, it's very difficult to build up their confidence or make any correction in jump technique or program due to time constraint. The anxiety will build up causing more negative thought than anything. It was coach's poor judgement, IMO.
2. To stay in Europe for two weeks and practice before Worlds is very expensive. Besides food, lodging,transportation, athlete also has to take care of some of the expense, e.g.coach's daily fee (since coach will lose some income during those two weeks when compare with staying at home).
3. It's not easy to find ice time to practice if you're not familiar with the town/city.

pinky166
03-12-2012, 04:05 PM
Simple answer to the question at the title of this thread: YES, IT WAS, especially Czisny. A manouvre almost as 'brilliant' as sending 13th-place Nationals-placer Ricky Dornbusch to 4Cs instead of Armin M.

The whole system is a crap shoot, Dornbush had a better fall season than Mahbanoozadeh and beat him in the FS at nationals so they decided to forgive him the SP bomb there and make him 1st alternate for 4CC. They also made a gamble sending 16th place finisher Farris to JW and he ended up winning silver, placing ahead of 9th place nationals finisher Brown, with a huge score, and came super close to winning the title. In that situation, the gamble paid off, you could have said Warren was more "deserving" of the spot based on the way he skated at Nats, but no way would he have come in 2nd in that field had he been sent. Ricky skating well will beat Armin skating well internationally, USFS knows that, so they sent him. They probably thought his SP at nats was a fluke, turns out he was actually in a bit of a rut, so while it sucks for Armin, his GOOD performances at nats probably seemed like a fluke because he was so lackluster on the GP. What it comes down to is, none of the other US men, if skating clean, can top a clean Abbott in international competition, and of the US ladies, the only ones who, if skating clean, can top a clean Alissa in international competition are Ashley, who is already going to Worlds, and Mirai, who was not solid at nationals and has been off her game a bit this whole season. So they might as well send Jeremy and Alissa to Worlds, if they bomb there, the USFS will take note and I'm sure invest more attention in younger skaters with more potential for the future coming up through the ranks next season.

demetriosj
03-12-2012, 05:20 PM
the USFS will take note and I'm sure invest more attention in younger skaters with more potential for the future coming up through the ranks next season.

why wasn't USFS doing this for, oh say the past decade where Czisny is concerned?

pani
03-12-2012, 05:29 PM
They get some raiting points. So they need this competition. But two time in two weeks went to Europe - i am not sure.
Why we didnt have B-competition in North America?

RD
03-12-2012, 05:38 PM
Well, WAS it a mistake?

I don't think we can truly know at this point. Maybe it was an opportunity to get the jitters out before the real thing, in which case it would seem in retrospect like a smart decision. OTOH, if they tank at worlds as well, it would seem that the Cup was a waste of time/energy which should have been directed to staying at home training.

Like someone else pointed out, the key to this is whether Team Czisny or Team Abbott learned anything from this comp (for Czisny, maybe it's not worth it to go for 2-3 combo after all if it threw off her timing for everything else). And another key, believe it or not, is how they perform in France 2 weeks from now.

Sylvia
03-12-2012, 05:40 PM
They get some raiting points. So they need this competition
Neither Abbott nor Czisny needed the ISU World Standings rankings points -- they both already were in the top 12 to be drawn into the final 2 groups of the SP at Worlds. Rippon actually could have used the ranking points since he is just outside the top 12. Joubert's 250 points for the Challenge Cup win moves him up to #13 among the men scheduled for Worlds, with Rippon right behind him: http://www.isuresults.com/ws/ws/wsmen.htm


Why we didnt have B-competition in North America?
There's reportedly one in the works for early next season -- see: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=82267

BTW, for what it's worth, Abbott had a positive-sounding tweet last night: "Did what I needed to do in The Hague. Excited for the next 2 weeks of training & thankful for the support of my federation"

ETA: Of course, none of us are in the skaters' heads so we can't know their respective mental states heading into Worlds. Only they truly know what they can/have to do in order to be successful and skate to the best of their abilities at Worlds.

Cheylana
03-12-2012, 05:44 PM
I really hope Alissa scraps the 2A-3T once and for all, and instead focuses on elements that are actually in her wheelhouse.
Then again, maybe this is all part of their plan for peaking at Worlds. I sure hope so!

Primorskaya
03-12-2012, 06:38 PM
I think Alissa said it would be too expensive to stay and train in Europe during the interim period, and anyway she prefers to train at home in Detroit. She also said the traveling back and forth wasn't a big deal as it was "only Europe." Not sure if this is the "well known" reason geod mentioned, but it's what I had heard/read.

Ok thanks, it makes sense.

Thanks geo2 as well, sorry i don't even know how to quote two messages in one reply!

pinky166
03-12-2012, 07:03 PM
why wasn't USFS doing this for, oh say the past decade where Czisny is concerned?

Because no one else stepped up to the plate. Agnes, Gold, etc were just babies until recently. Puberty completely knocked Caroline out for a few years, Mirai hasn't been consistent since she hi puberty, Rachael had nothing else going for her besides consistency, same goes for Emily, Kimmie was never going to do well once judges cracked down on URs with her blatantly cheated jumps and toe-axel, and Ashley was always shooting herself in the foot in competition, especially at nationals, so Alissa when she chose to deliver was the best we had. Now she's getting older and still isn't consistent or a strong jumper so there's no need to invest in her any longer.

genevieve
03-12-2012, 07:32 PM
I was re-watching my DVD of recent Nationals and noticed how, just before she takes her starting position for a program, Alissa practices her arm/hand positions for jumps; she does this in s-l-o-w motion whereas every other lady does this sort of thing quickly, with a snap motion. Doesn't this tell it all?
nope