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IceAlisa
03-12-2012, 08:39 PM
I love Valse Triste but may be you have a point--I am starting to come around to the idea that perhaps it's not the best music for skating. Although I think if Alissa had been nailing the jumps in the program and had a bit more choreography, no one would complain about the music.

geod2
03-12-2012, 08:43 PM
Although I think if Alissa had been nailing the jumps in the program and had a bit more choreography, no one would complain about the music.

True.
Nothing sells quite like nailing the jumps...especially in Alissa's case where you take the spins, spirals, and PCS sort of for granted that they're not going to be the problem.
.

RD
03-12-2012, 09:00 PM
Yes, the music is drab, but I think the bigger issue is that Czisny has not sold the program all season. She's had numerous mistakes in every one of her performances to that piece this season, so hard to tell. You need to build tension throughout the program and when you fall or screw up bad, all that tension is released and you're left with a deflated stadium.

Cheylana
03-12-2012, 09:18 PM
I agree with UMBS, but I also agree with this:

Yes, the music is drab, but I think the bigger issue is that Czisny has not sold the program all season.
And it's not just because she makes mistakes in the program; it's also because there's not that much choreo or real interpretation.

Susan M
03-12-2012, 09:32 PM
Folks have offered a number of reasons for Alissa's inconsistent performances - insufficient protein and/or, insufficient carbs leading to lack of strength/energy, uninspiring music, uninspiring choreo, competition nerves. I honestly don't think it is any of those things.

I think it is simply a case that most triple jumps are at the limits of her physical capability. That means she may sometimes land them but will also mess up a lot. More strength training, more practice, different technique aren't going to help. She already re-worked her technique and she is as likely to fall in practice as in competition. I think she has simply maxed out what her body can do. Not everyone has the genetic potential to be a champion in a given sport, no matter how hard they work or how perfect their diet and coaching.

She is a lovely skater and especially beautiful spinner, but if you look back at the events she has won, it is amazing to see how often her successful performances still only involved 4 good triples. Maybe instead of asking what is wrong with Alyssa, we should be asking what is wrong with us that we continue to expect her to do any better in spite of the mounting evidence.

IceAlisa
03-12-2012, 09:34 PM
Alissa.

skfan
03-12-2012, 09:53 PM
was anybody complaining when virtue & moir skated to valse triste? or rakkamo and kokko? someone else mentioned johnny weir. it's beautiful music when other skaters skate to it.

and the choreo is not any more empty than last season's, IMO.

why couldn't they have been going for that soft, hushed, solemnity and quietude--perhaps somebody on her team thought no other skater could do create that mood quite like czisny.

did anyone complain about the recent korngold short program? that to me was her absolute best program, not the grin-heavy la vie en rose or the stalk-stalk-stalk winston piece so many loved.

the korngold program now-- was that any more lively than valse triste? one could argue it was even more monotonous. the difference was it was a short program and there were not as many jumps to be stalked. and expectations weren't as high as they are now.

really reaching here, blaming USFS, choreo, music, vegan diet...

RD
03-12-2012, 09:55 PM
Folks have offered a number of reasons for Alyssa's inconsistent performances - insufficient protein and/or, insufficient carbs leading to lack of strength/energy, uninspiring music, uninspiring choreo, competition nerves. I honestly don't think it is any of those things.

I think it is simply a case that most triple jumps are at the limits of her physical capability.

Perhaps- but isn't Olympic-level sport all about pushing those limits? Besides, she seemed to show at least SOME competence last season, even if she wasn't perfect. So the fact that she has fallen back into the up-down pattern, while no surprise, has shown that perhaps she has peaked as a competitor. That would be too bad, because we really need her at her best right now...

AJ Skatefan
03-12-2012, 09:56 PM
I still haven't seen anything that confirms Alissa is a vegan.

Neither have I.

And it's completely possible to get enough nutrients from a vegetarian or vegan diet to sustain an athlete.

martyross
03-12-2012, 10:11 PM
did anyone complain about the recent schoenberg short program? that to me was her absolute best program, not the grin-heavy la vie en rose or the stalk-stalk-stalk winston piece so many loved.

schoenberg program? Arnold Schoenberg? can't figure which one you mean..:confused:

skfan
03-12-2012, 10:20 PM
schoenberg program? Arnold Schoenberg? can't figure which one you mean..:confused:


sorry. Korngold. my oops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McGIK4AlG2o&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL607CF03EE35F870B

geod2
03-12-2012, 10:28 PM
Out on a limb with a question.
Over the course of a season (given the same music), how do the number of changes in the jump sequences/layout from one event to the next
for Kostner and Czisny compare to the "average" for skaters at this level?
Maybe it's impossible to say what the "average" is.
Team Czisny seems to have made more adjustments over the season than
Team Kostner, but I don't claim that there is a connection to Alissa'a current problems or Kostner's success.



Kostner


SA .......3Lo ....3F .... .2A .........2A+2T ....3T+2T .........3S ....3S+2T+1Lo
TEB .....3Lo ....2F .... .2A .........2A+2T ....3T+2T+2T ...3S ....3S+2T
GPF .....3Lo ....3F ... ..1A .........2A+3T ....3T+2T .........3S ....3S+2T
ICC ......3Lo ....3F .....2A+3T .. .3F+2T .... 2A...............3S ....3S+2T


Czisny
SA .......3Lz+3T ......3F .......3Lo ........3Lz .......2S ......3Lo+2T .....2A+2T+2Lo
TEB .....3Lz ............3F ....1A+2T ...3Lz+2T ....2A ......3Lo+2T ........3Lo
GPF .....3Lz ............3T .......2A ......3Lz+2T ....2A ......3Lo ..............3Lo
USNat .3Lz .........2A+2T ....3F .........3Lz .......2A ......3Lo ..........3Lo+2T+2Lo
ICC ......1A ............ 2Lz ......3F ......1A+2T .....3Lz .....3Lo ..............3Lo



(sorry about the dots. no other way to align columns that I know of)
-

feraina
03-12-2012, 11:14 PM
Team Czisny seems to have made more adjustments over the season than
Team Kostner, but I don't claim that there is a connection to Alissa'a current problems or Kostner's success.

Nice table, and rather telling. Of course, it's hard to know whether moving jumps around is making it harder for Alissa to be consistent, or whether Team Alissa is moving the jumps around because Alissa can't ever seem to get comfortable with her current layout.

martyross
03-12-2012, 11:21 PM
sorry. Korngold. my oops.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McGIK4AlG2o&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL607CF03EE35F870B

no prob! i was having an hard time picturing Alissa Czisny in the middle of a dodecaphonic piece :D

fan5
03-12-2012, 11:48 PM
Nice table, and rather telling. Of course, it's hard to know whether moving jumps around is making it harder for Alissa to be consistent, or whether Team Alissa is moving the jumps around because Alissa can't ever seem to get comfortable with her current layout.

It does highlight how they flip-flopped the 2a and 3lz. The 3lz after the 2 minute mark, on the correct edge, fully rotated and awarded 4.5 even with the fall shows Alissa is strong throughout, IMO. Switch them back?