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RD
04-10-2012, 01:45 AM
Even as recently as TEB 2011 she was doing fine. Nationals, while not her best skate, wasn't a complete disaster. Again, something happened- but in retrospect, she really should have stuck to what was working instead of tinkering with the harder jumps. Looks like she bit off much more than she could chew this season...

krenseby
04-10-2012, 04:13 AM
Even as recently as TEB 2011 she was doing fine. Nationals, while not her best skate, wasn't a complete disaster. Again, something happened- but in retrospect, she really should have stuck to what was working instead of tinkering with the harder jumps. Looks like she bit off much more than she could chew this season...

I have some idea of what might have happened. Well, this is only speculation, but it might make sense. I can imagine that after nationals, her team decided not to overhaul her technique completely, but just make some minor adjustments on her jumps. This attempt to introduce minor adjustments had two side effects: 1.) the muscle memory of the previous technique was disrupted due to the changes, however minor. 2.) The experimentation phase involving those minor changes while causing no real injury did subject Czisny to pain. So, I imagine that Czisny came to Worlds with a tweaked jump technique and unreliable muscle memory in addition to pain in her legs due to the attempted changes.

RD
04-10-2012, 05:18 AM
A skater like Czisny really shouldn't be messing around with jumps like that DURING the season. We fans all know how fragile she is, and if team Czisny didn't know before...well, now they do :eek:

Still though, I suspect there's more to this than meets the eye. I won't speculate or try to guess what it is, but something was off. Even in warmup she was able to land a couple of jumps FWIW.

arakwafan2006
04-10-2012, 07:19 PM
I have some idea of what might have happened. Well, this is only speculation, but it might make sense. I can imagine that after nationals, her team decided not to overhaul her technique completely, but just make some minor adjustments on her jumps. This attempt to introduce minor adjustments had two side effects: 1.) the muscle memory of the previous technique was disrupted due to the changes, however minor. 2.) The experimentation phase involving those minor changes while causing no real injury did subject Czisny to pain. So, I imagine that Czisny came to Worlds with a tweaked jump technique and unreliable muscle memory in addition to pain in her legs due to the attempted changes.

This is actually a really fair assertion. Still, at this level, she is expected to be able to make it happen. Not that she shouldnt still be evolving but to call this a learning experience is just really unacceptable.

victoriaheidi
04-10-2012, 08:16 PM
Am I the only one who comes to this site wondering if there will be a post pertaining to alissa retiring? So nerve destructing...

I'm sort of surprised that there haven't really been any US retirements thus far in the off-season.

smarts1
04-10-2012, 09:20 PM
I think the more plausible reason is changing her jump layout completely in the LP right before Challange Cup and Worlds, IMO. The disaster at Challenge probably shook her confidence a bit and changing the jump layout this late in the season didn't help... But yeah, her jumps were oddly all weird/off axis at Worlds.

VALuvsMKwan
04-10-2012, 09:27 PM
I'm sort of surprised that there haven't really been any US retirements thus far in the off-season.

There have been now - see the Evora and Ladwig announcement thread.

kwanfan1818
04-10-2012, 09:48 PM
Unfortunately I think most judges involved in USFS could care less about skater health.

If a skater is done for the count, there's always another one waiting in the wings to replace them.

Who cares about the injured one, physical or mental? Why invest any more money or time in them?

Move on to "the next big thing".

until "the next big thing" is injured and so on and so on and so on......
That would be true if USFS was centralized with a single agenda, but it's not.


But the GPF was the nail in the coffin, apparently. In hindsight I'm not even sure how she was able to hang on like she did at Nationals. Every other competition since the GPF was a total disaster for her.
Czisny was injured at GPF. She said her injury healed for Nationals, which would make a stronger performance there logical.

victoriaheidi
04-10-2012, 09:49 PM
There have been now - see the Evora and Ladwig announcement thread.

Yeah. As soon as I read it on facebook, I was like, "wait, didn't I just post about this?" Creeeeeeepy

RD
04-10-2012, 10:34 PM
Czisny was injured at GPF. She said her injury healed for Nationals, which would make a stronger performance there logical.

Yes- yet, that ALONE does not explain the lapse back into GPF-type condition afterward.

kwanfan1818
04-10-2012, 10:44 PM
She looked different faltering in the Netherlands and at Worlds, although she looked demoralized at all three.

I wonder if Dungjen and Sato were tweaking with her programs between Nationals and Worlds in order to distract her. Robin Wagner famously did this for Sarah Hughes, especially after Hughes was held up at US Nationals just made the Olympic team after a very weak nationals, distracting her by re-choreographing a good chunk of her FS (and improving it greatly, IMO).

fenway2
04-10-2012, 10:55 PM
Robin Wagner famously did this for Sarah Hughes, especially after Hughes was held up at US Nationals just made the Olympic team after a very weak nationals Well this is a new claim I've not heard from some Kwan fans. Who should have beaten Hughes at nationals? Nikodinov in the short but overall? No way. So whom did evil Hughes rob of an Olympic spot?

RD
04-10-2012, 10:57 PM
Big Hughes was a different case- she had the mental toughness in past competitions that would indicate she might deal with it well.

But Czisny- she's as fragile as they come. Anything outside her comfort zone, or anything that shakes her up, she's done. I happen to think she was doomed anyway- I didn't expect her to skate well at worlds even before the Challenge Cup disaster (check the archives).

fenway2
04-10-2012, 11:00 PM
Big Hughes was a different case- she had the mental toughness in past competitions that would indicate she might deal with it well.

But Czisny- she's as fragile as they come. Anything outside her comfort zone, or anything that shakes her up, she's done. I happen to think she was doomed anyway- I didn't expect her to skate well at worlds even before the Challenge Cup disaster (check the archives). I agree, Czisny doesn't have 1/10th of Hughes mental focus and toughness.

smarts1
04-11-2012, 01:05 AM
^ Exactly. Czisny can be very mentally fragile. Hughes got through her career with a rock for nerves. You could always count on her for giving a pretty solid skate regardless of her toe jump technique.

It really is depressing that so many of the top skaters today have mental issues when there were few headcases in the early 2000s...