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MrLucky
04-01-2012, 07:45 PM
Or is it? Even for a headcase like Czisny, that showing was just...embarrassing to say the least. It's the worst I've EVER seen her (or any skater for that matter) do at ANY competition, and that includes eggs she laid as far back as 2004. Something isn't right/seems to be off. I'm not going to speculate what it is, but even for her, this was simply dreadful.

And yet, aside from you (and a few other fans) Alissa is a beloved skater whose appeal is appreciated over several continents.

Yes indeed!

Alissa is a special skater and real fans of skating can overlook her competitive failures.

Fans like you just don't know the difference .

victoriaheidi
04-01-2012, 08:07 PM
And yet, aside from you (and a few other creepy fans) Alissa is a beloved skater whose appeal is appreciated over several continents.

Yes indeed!

Alissa is a special skater and real fans of skating can overlook her competitive failures.

Fans like you just don't know the difference .

You are probably a Meisner/Flatt fan :rofl:

Disagree. I'm a huge Alissa fan, but there is no denying that what she did in Nice was really bad. Like, tragic. I wanted to hug her, but I also wanted answers. Why didn't they withdraw if something like that was imminent? Was it not imminent?

RD
04-01-2012, 08:23 PM
And yet, aside from you (and a few other creepy fans) Alissa is a beloved skater whose appeal is appreciated over several continents.

Yes indeed!

Alissa is a special skater and real fans of skating can overlook her competitive failures.

Fans like you just don't know the difference .

You are probably a Meisner/Flatt fan

Listen man, on a personal level- i.e. from one human being to another- I did feel bad for her and can't imagine what she is feeling right now.

HOWEVER, as a fan of US skating, I find myself wondering what the heck she was doing at worlds in such horrific condition in the first place. I question the judgment of her, her team and USFS for that matter. This is not something that suddenly popped up out of the blue. She also crashed and burned at a prior event. If USFS wasn't aware of Czisny's condition up to that point, they should AT THE VERY LEAST have asked Team Czisny some pressing questions and tried to find out what was going on. Perhaps they should have done that with Abbott as well. If USFS did that and was fully aware of Czisny's condition before Worlds, then it's on them for taking a chance on her like that. OTOH, if it is Team Czisny that is deliberately concealing something from USFS/the public, it's on Czisny. Kind of hard to do that when you're mopping the ice with your dress though...

rhumba
04-01-2012, 08:26 PM
Disagree. I'm a huge Alissa fan, but there is no denying that what she did in Nice was really bad. Like, tragic. I wanted to hug her, but I also wanted answers. Why didn't they withdraw if something like that was imminent? Was it not imminent?

I would not blame Alissa, coaches should be blamed. They should have known how her condition was before Worlds. They were with her everyday, also at Hague two weeks before Worlds. They should be able to figure out what happened in Hague and tried to fix it. If they saw possible disaster (not able to get her jumps consistent enough to compete at that level), they should not let Alissa go out humiliate herself and her country. How could you call yourself world class coach when you got no idea how unprepared your student was. We are not talking about one skater, we talked about three skaters with all poor shows, 3 out of 3, 100% failure!!

victoriaheidi
04-01-2012, 08:35 PM
I would not blame Alissa, coaches should be blamed. They should have known how her condition was before Worlds. They were with her everyday, also at Hague two weeks before Worlds. They should be able to figure out what happened in Hague and tried to fix it. If they saw possible disaster (not able to get her jumps consistent enough to compete at that level), they should not let Alissa go out humiliate herself and her country. How could you call yourself world class coach when you got no idea how unprepared your student was. We are not talking about one skater, we talked about three skaters with all poor shows, 3 out of 3, 100% failure!!

I don't blame Alissa. I blame the whole team. INCLUDING USFS for not doing adequate research after the Hague.

Cheylana
04-01-2012, 08:37 PM
Why blame the coaches. Alissa paid them to help her compete at her best, not to insist that she pull out of events. Alissa is an adult, and ultimately it was her decision to give it a go.

MrLucky
04-01-2012, 08:49 PM
Listen man, on a personal level- i.e. from one human being to another- I did feel bad for her and can't imagine what she is feeling right now.

HOWEVER, as a fan of US skating, I find myself wondering what the heck she was doing at worlds in such horrific condition in the first place. I question the judgment of her, her team and USFS for that matter. This is not something that suddenly popped up out of the blue. She also crashed and burned at a prior event. If USFS wasn't aware of Czisny's condition up to that point, they should AT THE VERY LEAST have asked Team Czisny some pressing questions and tried to find out what was going on. Perhaps they should have done that with Abbott as well. If USFS did that and was fully aware of Czisny's condition before Worlds, then it's on them for taking a chance on her like that. OTOH, if it is Team Czisny that is deliberately concealing something from USFS/the public, it's on Czisny. Kind of hard to do that when you're mopping the ice with your dress though...

I appreciate your attempt at sounding fair, but you are a longtime known basher of skaters like Sasha and Alissa.

Maybe I missed something here - but has it come out that Alissa had a broken leg or some other medical reason that should have kept her from particpating at 2012 Worlds?

If that is the case then I would be upset if Team Alissa puled a "Flatt" and intentionally sabotaged Team USA's chances for purely selfish reasons.

arakwafan2006
04-01-2012, 09:07 PM
Why blame the coaches. Alissa paid them to help her compete at her best, not to insist that she pull out of events. Alissa is an adult, and ultimately it was her decision to give it a go.

If one more person makes excuses for that grown woman i am going to scream. I almost think she needs a Tarasova-ish coach that makes her show ownership. Her whole " I dont know what happened" routine is just terrible. If she doesnt know then who the hell should we ask? HER SKATES? She's competed too many times to "not know" what happened. Hurts to see her perform so poorly but its dusgusting to see the whole "shrug shoulder" act. As old as she is and as experienced as she is, thats just not acceptable any more. Jason and Yuka should phase their assistance out and make Alissa the captain of her own ship. If she is already then she needs to retire. flat out. No shame in that. Everything has a beginning a middle and an end.

5Ali3
04-01-2012, 09:10 PM
Skaters are, in fact, monitored between Nationals and Worlds, although the timing of the monitoring often focuses on allowing time to practice post-Nationals/post-monitoring adjustments to the programs, rather than checking immediately before departure to ensure an athlete isn't injured.

When I read between the lines of some posts, it seems there's an assumption that the interests of "USFSA" are to maximize the placements of the U.S. team at any given international. As I've stated many times, "USFSA" is not a hivemind, and different individuals within the organization have different goals. With any given decision of "USFSA," it is possible that the decision serves the interest of the individuals making the decision, while not serving the interest of other individuals. This is one reason, among many, that I believe it's inaccurate to place blame - or praise - on "USFSA" for just about anything. In an organization based on geographically dispersed individuals who serve in volunteer positions, and with a culture of deference and trust, many major actions of "the association" reflect the beliefs, agendas, and decisions of a limited number of people; which people are responsible for a given set of decisions, such as who gets international assignments, tend to be different year-to-year, with turnover in a major committee's leadership occurring every three-four years.

victoriaheidi
04-01-2012, 09:22 PM
Skaters are, in fact, monitored between Nationals and Worlds, although the timing of the monitoring often focuses on allowing time to practice post-Nationals/post-monitoring adjustments to the programs, rather than checking immediately before departure to ensure an athlete isn't injured.

When I read between the lines of some posts, it seems there's an assumption that the interests of "USFSA" are to maximize the placements of the U.S. team at any given international. As I've stated many times, "USFSA" is not a hivemind, and different individuals within the organization have different goals. With any given decision of "USFSA," it is possible that the decision serves the interest of the individuals making the decision, while not serving the interest of other individuals. This is one reason, among many, that I believe it's inaccurate to place blame - or praise - on "USFSA" for just about anything. In an organization based on geographically dispersed individuals who serve in volunteer positions, and with a culture of deference and trust, many major actions of "the association" reflect the beliefs, agendas, and decisions of a limited number of people; which people are responsible for a given set of decisions, such as who gets international assignments, tend to be different year-to-year, with turnover in a major committee's leadership occurring every three-four years.

I don't believe that their interests are in placements, but I do believe that their interests should involve skater health (physical and mental).

RD
04-01-2012, 09:55 PM
As I've stated many times, "USFSA" is not a hivemind, and different individuals within the organization have different goals. With any given decision of "USFSA," it is possible that the decision serves the interest of the individuals making the decision, while not serving the interest of other individuals. This is one reason, among many, that I believe it's inaccurate to place blame - or praise - on "USFSA" for just about anything. In an organization based on geographically dispersed individuals who serve in volunteer positions, and with a culture of deference and trust, many major actions of "the association" reflect the beliefs, agendas, and decisions of a limited number of people; which people are responsible for a given set of decisions, such as who gets international assignments, tend to be different year-to-year, with turnover in a major committee's leadership occurring every three-four years.

Would you (or anyone else) suggest that the organization needs restructuring in that case? If everyone in USFS is looking out for themselves like this suggests, this is just going to keep happening over and over again until someone decides to step up.

demetriosj
04-01-2012, 10:01 PM
I don't believe that their interests are in placements, but I do believe that their interests should involve skater health (physical and mental).

Unfortunately I think most judges involved in USFS could care less about skater health.

If a skater is done for the count, there's always another one waiting in the wings to replace them.

Who cares about the injured one, physical or mental? Why invest any more money or time in them?

Move on to "the next big thing".

until "the next big thing" is injured and so on and so on and so on......

skateboy
04-01-2012, 10:35 PM
Could it be--just maybe--that Alissa simply had the meltdown of her life and really doesn't know where it came from? (My guess would be that the SP falls spooked her and she just couldn't shake it for the LP...)

We all know she's had problems in the past. And she's also skated beautiful programs.

I'll admit, I haven't paid attention to this, so if it's been discussed, I apologize, but: how were Alissa's practices/warm-ups at Worlds? Was she falling on everything?

So sad, because at her best Alissa is every bit as podium-worthy as the three ladies who won medals this weekend.

ks1227
04-01-2012, 10:35 PM
Her whole " I dont know what happened" routine is just terrible. If she doesnt know then who the hell should we ask? HER SKATES? She's competed too many times to "not know" what happened. Hurts to see her perform so poorly but its dusgusting to see the whole "shrug shoulder" act.
I think it's a bit disingenuous to construe her comment about not knowing what happened as "shrugging her shoulders." It was obvious that she was crushed by what happened, not shrugging it off.


If they saw possible disaster (not able to get her jumps consistent enough to compete at that level), they should not let Alissa go out humiliate herself and her country.
I reject the idea that Czisny "humiliated her country." She may have humiliated herself, but she didn't humiliate me or anyone else just by virtue of citizenship. That kind of ridiculous nationalism in skating only puts more unnecessary pressure on skaters who, for whatever reason, lack confidence (which has obviously been true for a long time for both Czisny and Abbott, whatever else might have been going on with them and whatever else we might think about Jason and Yuka's strengths and weaknesses as coaches with fragile students).

Cheylana
04-01-2012, 10:40 PM
I'll admit, I haven't paid attention to this, so if it's been discussed, I apologize, but: how were Alissa's practices/warm-ups at Worlds? Was she falling on everything?
Based on my skimming of FSU threads on the topic, the Worlds practices (not sure about the warm-ups) were bad. And of course her performances at Challenge Cup two weeks ago were quite bad. :(


I reject the idea that Czisny "humiliated her country." She may have humiliated herself, but she didn't humiliate me or anyone else just by virtue of citizenship.
Agree.