PDA

View Full Version : What is the deal with Alissa?



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33

jlai
03-31-2012, 12:06 AM
My question is, HOW exactly did they earn it? I'm missing something...

Wagner earned her spot as champion

Czisny earned hers through the 2nd spot- it helps that she was able to squeeze out 2 medals on the GP despite not skating her best and qualifying for the GPF. Zawadzki was unimpressive on the GP and Zhang still had a shaky FS at SA despite a good SP. Czisny's Nationals performance showed that while she wasn't impressive, she clearly improved from the disaster that was GPF. Zawadzki and Zhang just aren't in her league unless they are at their BEST.

Now, if USFS had any doubt about Czisny's abilities, you could say that they could have had a 3-skater skate-off among Czisny, Zawadzki and Zhang at 4 Continents for the 2nd spot. (But then, you would have to leave Wagner behind and that in itself would have been quite risky too.) Or, send Wagner to 4CCs for the experience, and have a 2-skater skateoff between Czisny & Zawadzki, or Czisny & Zhang for spot 2. It appears they trusted Czisny enough to send her straight to worlds without a tune-up.


Don't be dense, RD. You know perfectly well that Alissa was held up on scores, ensuring she would get 2nd place despite two mediocre skates. Ergo, Alissa did not earn her silver medal, she was gifted it.

Additionally, Zhang had two terrific programs and her scores did not reflect it.

I don't see how this argument is going anywhere. One person says the results justify whatever USFSA decisions (or lack thereof) in Jan and Feb. The other says the decisions in Jan and Feb cause the problems today. So basically one says, "B happens, therefore, A is correct." The other says "A causes B." There is no way to prove either.

Anyway, USFS doesn't do pre-world skateoffs as a tradition. So that part won't happen no matter what. Whether it should happen is another matter

Triple Butz
03-31-2012, 12:10 AM
Don't be dense, RD. You know perfectly well that Alissa was held up on scores, ensuring she would get 2nd place despite two mediocre skates. Ergo, Alissa did not earn her silver medal, she was gifted it.

Additionally, Zhang had two terrific programs and her scores did not reflect it.

I'm so happy for Zhang and her comeback. I agree she was slightly underscored, but let's not forget that she only plans FIVE triples in the FS (skips the toe and sal) one of which is a flutz, and the other two are passes are dicey 2axels. Her program is just as barren as Alissa's.

Unfortunately, there is NO ONE in the US right now that is a lock for a good performance. The best bet we have is Ashley, and even she succumbed to the pressure in her sp. I want three spots as badly as anyone, but right now our girls just aren't skating well enough to deserve them. When they do, we'll get them back.

berthesghost
03-31-2012, 12:46 AM
I don't see how this argument is going anywhere. One person says the results justify whatever USFSA decisions (or lack thereof) in Jan and Feb. The other says the decisions in Jan and Feb cause the problems today. So basically one says, "B happens, therefore, A is correct." The other says "A causes B." There is no way to prove either.No.

This is the rule: skater A and B go to worlds and bomb. Spend the next 5 years posting in every thread that had skaters C and D been sent instead, 3 spots would have resulted. The truth that none of it is provable is directly related to how passionately people insist it's "fact". :lol:

jlai
03-31-2012, 12:59 AM
No.

This is the rule: skater A and B go to worlds and bomb. Spend the next 5 years posting in every thread that had skaters C and D been sent instead, 3 spots would have resulted. The truth that none of it is provable is directly related to how passionately people insist it's "fact". :lol:

:)

The thing is, there IS something USFS can do to improve their program. But I think it doesn't help matters that people rehash similar arguments that others dont wanna hear, and all the improvement discussions are drowned.

Take for instance, I would love for USFS to bring back a bit of figures in testing, just to improve their skaters' basics. And less emphasis on body lines, toe points and gracefulness and more on power and speed and edging. and have that more reflected in judging competitions. Anyway, I don't see any changes in USFSA program any time soon :(

Jammers
03-31-2012, 01:57 AM
:)

The thing is, there IS something USFS can do to improve their program. But I think it doesn't help matters that people rehash similar arguments that others dont wanna hear, and all the improvement discussions are drowned.

Take for instance, I would love for USFS to bring back a bit of figures in testing, just to improve their skaters' basics. And less emphasis on body lines, toe points and gracefulness and more on power and speed and edging. and have that more reflected in judging competitions. Anyway, I don't see any changes in USFSA program any time soon :(

I do agree with this. For too long US coaches were still coaching these girls like they were skating in the old 6.0 system. It's a fact that it's taken until now for American coaches to get up to speed with COP. While gracefulness and body lines are needed US girls have not had the best jump technique and usually are more pwetty princess's then power jumpers. Maybe Gracie is the one to break on through. As much polish as she needs she can already challenge the best in the world in jumps and in fact is stronger then many of the Senior Ladies.

demetriosj
03-31-2012, 02:05 AM
FYI Zhang was not first alternate. Agnes would have went over her so its really a moot point to say she was bypassed for Alissa. She was 2nd alternate, not first. If Alissa WD, she (Caroline) still would not be on the world team.

I'm arguing that Alissa should not have been 2nd at Nationals.

If she were not, she would not have been sent to Worlds and some other more deserving skater would have been sent, if things were fair.

AndyWarhol
03-31-2012, 02:35 AM
:)

The thing is, there IS something USFS can do to improve their program. But I think it doesn't help matters that people rehash similar arguments that others dont wanna hear, and all the improvement discussions are drowned.

Take for instance, I would love for USFS to bring back a bit of figures in testing, just to improve their skaters' basics. And less emphasis on body lines, toe points and gracefulness and more on power and speed and edging. and have that more reflected in judging competitions. Anyway, I don't see any changes in USFSA program any time soon :(

I agree with the emphasis on basics, but the toe point and line ARE important.

arakwafan2006
03-31-2012, 03:10 AM
At least Julie Berlin can say it wasn't all her fault that Alissa was a splatfest under her tutelage. Her switch to Yuka and Jason was to change her usual training routine, right? Then why go back to the same old training methods that didn't work for her before? She still has the same coddling, whimpering, there-there it's all right, baby relationship with her coach, except this time it's with Jason D instead of Julie B.

Being in outside sales, i know that you can have an off month...day... If you're a top performer, you're babied a little. Keep it up and its not long before they are handing you little pieces of paper to sign that include several references to you're employment being contingent upon performance.

Alissa needs to either step up or get out the way. Enjoy a career as a pro... a model... something. Competition is not her thing...

RD
03-31-2012, 04:03 AM
Unfortunately, there is NO ONE in the US right now that is a lock for a good performance. The best bet we have is Ashley, and even she succumbed to the pressure in her sp. I want three spots as badly as anyone, but right now our girls just aren't skating well enough to deserve them. When they do, we'll get them back.

This section of post #287 pretty much sums it all up...

jlai
03-31-2012, 04:52 AM
I agree with the emphasis on basics, but the toe point and line ARE important.

Just to add that Americans are also really into the bendy stuff, like the arch in the layback, the free leg in the spiral, etc etc. In other words, the body position gets the focus, not the blade.

Perhaps it's just easier to copy the bendy stuff from Sasha or Irina than copy Irina's or Kwan's skating technique.

AndyWarhol
03-31-2012, 05:06 AM
Kwans spiral was high, and had a beautiful line. It is possible to have excellent blade work and positions

jlai
03-31-2012, 05:06 AM
Why do you keep insisting she's injured when she's said nothing of the sort? Frankly, your comments about her covering an injury are borderline slanderous.

People who were there said she looked good in warmup and fine in practice. It's not like she's never had these outings before. I remember one instance when she fell 5 times in one competition. :shuffle:

Soup du jour: Czisny trying to keep her head up
http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120330&content_id=27755956&vkey=ice_news


She struggled with her elements all week long but always managed to display an incredible "touch" of ice and emotion. Czisny brings so much soul into each of her practices and performances.


(By the way, Czisny skated a much better practice Friday morning.)

Karpenko
03-31-2012, 05:39 AM
Would you just like a gun so you can shoot her and put her out of YOUR misery? Good grief, we don't know exactly what is wrong here, injury or otherwise. Take a deep breath here and chill! :rolleyes:

Let's not act like this isnt a big deal and there was nothing she could do about it, because it is. And really, as dramatic as you think I sound your response was a bit much as well. Even if I shot her with a watergun, her bum still wouldn't be as wet as it was in her short program performance. :saint:

She of all people, when it had happened last year with Rachael and such a huge fuss was made in the press, she got fined, Ashley has been making so many comments to the media about wanting especially more than anything to get 3 spots back (and while she made a mistake too, I am far more confident in her ability to move up, and not let the perforamnce defeat her into repeating another zamboni break like she did in the short).. I could go on and on and on how the heck could she let herself skate when she's in the condition that she's in? There's just no way I or any of her fans can argue this for her, and she's the most experienced, 2-time National Champion we have out there skating. And if this really is mental and the injury isn't to blame for that performance... :shuffle: That makes it a bit I don't know, worse?

I just have no clue how she will be able to continue her career with success after this and considering I've been a fan of hers from the get-go, which was almost a decade ago, I just find this all the more unforgiving because I thought she was a much wiser competitor than that. She's such a beautiful skater and I've always stuck behind her, but this is the 4th year with two spots, she has been to the World Championships so many times now and knows how much is on the line. I'm sorry I blew up quite the way I did but I just can't continue being her fan or rooting for her.

Cheylana
03-31-2012, 05:52 AM
People who were there said she looked good in warmup and fine in practice. It's not like she's never had these outings before. I remember one instance when she fell 5 times in one competition. :shuffle:
Reports at FSU mostly said Alissa's practices were terrible, splat city. I don't see why nerves would cause her to screw up her jumps in practice. Suggests an issue relating to injury or bad technique. Or maybe her earlier injury fully healed but caused her jumping technique to go awry.

I really hope Alissa is not injured for her sake, but if she is I'm sure we would never hear about it, given what happened to Rachael last year.


At least Julie Berlin can say it wasn't all her fault that Alissa was a splatfest under her tutelage. Her switch to Yuka and Jason was to change her usual training routine, right? Then why go back to the same old training methods that didn't work for her before? She still has the same coddling, whimpering, there-there it's all right, baby relationship with her coach, except this time it's with Jason D instead of Julie B.
Didn't Julie teach her bad jumping technique? Would be hard to unlearn it in such a short time.

jlai
03-31-2012, 12:26 PM
I really hope Alissa is not injured for her sake, but if she is I'm sure we would never hear about it, given what happened to Rachael last year.
.

That's why USFS should really do more monitoring pre-worlds --and pre-jgp too, for that matter.-- since no athletes will volunteer injury information; and for jgp, once the athletes get the spot, they keep it even if they can't land more than a clean triple.