PDA

View Full Version : What is the deal with Alissa?



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 [16] 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33

fan5
03-20-2012, 04:35 PM
^ Yay! It is beautiful.

What I was trying to say is that the above Ashkenazy 2008 Valse Triste is from the very same concert performance that Alissa is skating to, at least to my ear. Maybe something is lost in the rink acoustically? The Challenge Cup videos have poor sound quality. Her program takes all of the 4 minutes + 10 seconds leeway allowed. I thought it ran 4:20 at the Challenge Cup. Yes, Czisny's team kept a slow section of the music a little after the midpoint of the program which is difficult for her. I admire them for keeping it in, and would understand if it were scaled back.

That's interesting about time constraints and possibly gaining several seconds by staying motionless as the music begins? I had been thinking it was to signify that the character is asleep. The clock is ticking and she awakens to the sound of a waltz -- that's the play action anyway. Johnny Weir mime gestured something like awakening, an upward sweep of his hand across his face, at the beginning of his Valse Triste then another at the end signifying sleep or maybe death.

geod2
03-20-2012, 09:08 PM
^ Yay! It is beautiful.

What I was trying to say is that the above Ashkenazy 2008 Valse Triste is from the very same concert performance that Alissa is skating to, at least to my ear. Maybe something is lost in the rink acoustically? The Challenge Cup videos have poor sound quality. Her program takes all of the 4 minutes + 10 seconds leeway allowed. I thought it ran 4:20 at the Challenge Cup. Yes, Czisny's team kept a slow section of the music a little after the midpoint of the program which is difficult for her. I admire them for keeping it in, and would understand if it were scaled back.

That's interesting about time constraints and possibly gaining several seconds by staying motionless as the music begins? I had been thinking it was to signify that the character is asleep. The clock is ticking and she awakens to the sound of a waltz -- that's the play action anyway. Johnny Weir mime gestured something like awakening, an upward sweep of his hand across his face, at the beginning of his Valse Triste then another at the end signifying sleep or maybe death.


At first I thought it was the same, too, with just some parts edited out for Alissa's LP. They sound so similar.
However, the first 90 seconds of Ashkenazy's version takes 8-9 seconds longer (10% slower) in Alissa's LP.
And, the almost waltz-like section that starts after Alissa's spiral at 2:54 is actually a bit faster and definitely louder
than the slower, very soft (at times barely audible) interpretation by Ashkenazy (which is repeated in the Ashkenazy video,
but heard only once in Alissa's LP).

The Ashkenazy 2008 Valse Triste that you supplied starts at 0:42 and ends at 5:44 (5:02 total time).
Team Czisny would have to edit out a section of anyone's version of Valse Triste and now we know where the main cut happened.

Anyway, the Ashkenazy 2008 Valse Triste youtube video is really enjoyable to watch and hear regardless of whether Alissa used that version or not.

You're right about the awakening from sleep at the open...I forgot about that.

:)
-

fan5
03-21-2012, 05:20 AM
At first I thought it was the same, too, with just some parts edited out for Alissa's LP. They sound so similar.
However, the first 90 seconds of Ashkenazy's version takes 8-9 seconds longer (10% slower) in Alissa's LP.
And, the almost waltz-like section that starts after Alissa's spiral at 2:54 is actually a bit faster and definitely louder
than the slower, very soft (at times barely audible) interpretation by Ashkenazy (which is repeated in the Ashkenazy video,
but heard only once in Alissa's LP).

The Ashkenazy 2008 Valse Triste that you supplied starts at 0:42 and ends at 5:44 (5:02 total time).
Team Czisny would have to edit out a section of anyone's version of Valse Triste and now we know where the main cut happened.

Anyway, the Ashkenazy 2008 Valse Triste youtube video is really enjoyable to watch and hear regardless of whether Alissa used that version or not.

You're right about the awakening from sleep at the open...I forgot about that.

:)
-

I do see the changes in tempo now which could be the recordings, or maybe part of the editing done by Alissa's choreographer, music of course sometimes slowed down or sped up electronically for effect. They might have been happy with the piece in many respects but thought the beginning too fast. Slowing the first phrases down would perhaps enhance the opening "unearthly valse rhythm", simply by the attenuation of the sound.

So the beginning is untouched except for possibly the tempo, the first waltz melody repeated fully developing the piece. I thought the second waltz melody at 2:54 might be a combination of the two repeated variations, splicing the beginning of the first with the end of the second because the way Ashkenazy conducted it didn't suit them to just drop one or the other, again seamlessly edited if that's the case. And lastly, one of two very slow waltz sections had to go, the one which repeated the opening melody, as you also found, leaving 20 seconds of slow slow waltz. The last 1:36 sounds untouched.

More on the tempo and "unearthly" tone at the beginning, this video came to mind which has a tempo the same as Alissa's through the first waltz melody, and has a pronounced otherworldly quality -- maybe enhanced electronically and running 5:54. It could very well be Ashkenazy's in someone's creative hands. It has a narrative as well in keeping with the play.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKe6ZbEBhr8

Thanks, it's a nice study.

Dilng
03-21-2012, 06:15 PM
That's true, but the subtle approach only works when you're completely in control and not skating like a deer in the headlights. See...

Jeff Buttle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSbTaxPgexA)
Daisuke Takahashi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKj69pyeY38)
Matt Savoie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFAsNpBJbk0)
Michelle Kwan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpogyNs298o)
Katia Gordeeva (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fh3nQhwJCc)

Note in all these programs, the skating itself is still quite complex, nuanced, but full of transitions and steps...


Thank you for the videos I've never seen the one with Dai and I absolutely loved it. He is so musical and such a wonderful skater. His skating is just so magical. He really is one of my all time favorites!! :swoon:

LilJen
03-22-2012, 01:11 AM
That's true, but the subtle approach only works when you're completely in control and not skating like a deer in the headlights. See...

Jeff Buttle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSbTaxPgexA)
Daisuke Takahashi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKj69pyeY38)
Matt Savoie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFAsNpBJbk0)
Michelle Kwan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpogyNs298o)
Katia Gordeeva (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fh3nQhwJCc)

Note in all these programs, the skating itself is still quite complex, nuanced, but full of transitions and steps...

:swoon: You're really making me miss all these no-longer-eligible skaters (fortunately Dai is still out there)!!!! :wuzrobbed

fan5
03-22-2012, 07:50 PM
[QUOTE=geod2;3514368]...And, the almost waltz-like section that starts after Alissa's spiral at 2:54 is actually a bit faster and definitely louder
than the slower, very soft (at times barely audible) interpretation by Ashkenazy (which is repeated in the Ashkenazy video,
but heard only once in Alissa's LP).

After looking at it again (Ashkenazy- valse triste http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7919jk9wFU ) again you're right about the variations in tempo between this 2008 concert performance and Alissa's music, and the cuts. Alissa's is slower in tempo in the beginning, faster in the middle and the same at the end. It could be that Alissa's team is using an Ashkenazy performance from a different date, or maybe an orchestra will do a "studio" recording in addition to the live so they'll have a version free of audience noise for the record. Every performance must be a little different. Alissa's music plays 4:17 and Ashkenazy's run time 4:21 after removing the two cuts by Czisny's team, the first cut Ash.2:08-2:33 and the second 3:52-4:08.

The melody at Ash.2:57-3:52, which Czisny kept intact, has such dramatic changes in tone and tempo that it was difficult for me to understand as one melody -- the same with the finale Ash.4:08-5:44. It can't be easy to skate to. It's very beautiful to watch and listen to, this video capturing it, the drone of the HVAC at the beginning, the opening notes and swoosh of her skates (1:16)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pESb2qs3-Q&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PLD37ADCA7AA74306C

martyross
03-22-2012, 10:19 PM
i think Valse Triste is not an easy peace to skate for singles (i mean single skaters :p). it's better suitable to ice dance, as it has more choreographic moves. as a waltz, it has a clear rythm, obviously, but the melody is rather slow. it is also very expressive in itself. so in singles it's really challenging to find a choreo as brilliant as the music and capable of matching the slow tempo without giving an impression of emptiness. a lot of time goes lost in the preparation of the jumps. that's why in ice dance it's easier. Alissa, however, performs the step sequence very well. infact, she's the right skater for Valse triste. but including all those jumps and spins in the routine, limits the choreography a lot, and as i said, this particular music doesn't allow that.

fan5
03-24-2012, 01:40 PM
There's Valse Triste the concert piece and then there's Valse Triste from the play. Past programs seem to all have a familiarity with the origins of the music in the play as seen in the character of the moves, in ice dance she begins weak with him supporting her in various ways, and so on. Johnny Weir "acted it out". Similarly, Alissa seems to me to have picked up on what might be the main motif of the music (and play) as heard in the first two notes (time passing) and then the first variations of these two notes, up-down, Czisny giving us a hint of this in the way she settles into place at the beginning raising her arm and then bringing it down to rest by her cheek. On the fifth note she raises her arm lowering it on the sixth, and then a variation, and then more through the program concluding with the way she brings her hand down to rest on her shoulder at the end. It's simple and elegant.

fan5
03-25-2012, 05:30 PM
nm

arakwafan2006
03-29-2012, 04:29 PM
I think i hear retirement calling...

Jammers
03-29-2012, 05:00 PM
If the US can't even keep their two slots for Worlds next year Alissa needs to retire. Not that Ashley is blameless either. When is the last time the US has been this far down the standings after the SP at Worlds?

SceneIt
03-29-2012, 05:03 PM
Poor Alissa - I think all that fabulous spinning has done something to the jumping mechanisms in her brain.

krenseby
03-29-2012, 05:10 PM
Poor Alissa - I think all that fabulous spinning has done something to the jumping mechanisms in her brain.

I just think something serious has to be going on with Alissa. Yet no one on this board seems to know what it is.

arakwafan2006
03-29-2012, 05:12 PM
I just think something serious has to be going on with Alissa. Yet no one on this board seems to know what it is.

Everyone cant handle competition. Add to that the years of baggage...

martyross
03-29-2012, 05:33 PM
If the US can't even keep their two slots for Worlds next year Alissa needs to retire. Not that Ashley is blameless either. When is the last time the US has been this far down the standings after the SP at Worlds?

"not blameless"?
why don't you go on the ice and help them gaining your beloved spots, then?