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Seerek
03-08-2012, 07:26 PM
If P/T were robbed in 2001 or 2002, they were gifted at 2003 Worlds.

Not sure who should have deserved bronze though if it wasn't Petrova/Tikhnov since Pang/Tong and Langlois/Archetto were too far back after the Short Program.

judgejudy27
03-08-2012, 07:34 PM
I would have had Langlois & Archetto 5th in the SP instead of 6th and 3rd in the LP and 3rd overall at the 2003 Worlds. Then again I would have had Petrova & Tikhonov 2nd in the SP (since Shen & Zhou botched their spins badly) which would have still had them 3rd overall.

briancoogaert
03-08-2012, 09:34 PM
No offense to P/T but B/S didn't compete in 2000 because of her doping violation so it was much easier for P/T to win gold, otherwise it would have been a silver. Same with their European golds in 1999-2000.
And IMO, it could have been a bronze, because some said Shen&Zhao were robbed in 2000. So maybe PetTikh won because judges didn't want Shen&Zhao to win ! I have no real point of view since I think it was very close and I was not fan of any of those two teams (B&S were my favourite, I was so sad they didn't compete since their LP to Valse Sentimentale was so beautiful)

Vash01
03-08-2012, 09:57 PM
And IMO, it could have been a bronze, because some said Shen&Zhao were robbed in 2000. So maybe PetTikh won because judges didn't want Shen&Zhao to win ! I have no real point of view since I think it was very close and I was not fan of any of those two teams (B&S were my favourite, I was so sad they didn't compete since their LP to Valse Sentimentale was so beautiful)

It wasn't even close. S&Z had three significant errors. Petrova-Tikhonov's only mistake- IIRC- was Maria slightly two footed the landing of the double toe of the jump sequence. Other than that they had a very solid skate. Remind you, these were not S&Z of 2003! They had no artistry, and they had to depend solely on their technical elments. When they made 3 mistakes, the door was wide open for anyone.

I loved B&S's Valse Sentimentale LP, and even their Radetzky March SP (when skated clean/nearly clean) of the 2000 season. I read that by the time worlds arrived, they had worked through their problems and were feeling comfortable with their programs. Actually their skate at the Europeans was pretty good, except for a doubled triple toe by Elena. So there is a good chance that B&S would have won their 3rd world championship in a row and set themselves well for the pre-Olympic year 2001.

Still, I would not take anything away from Pet-Tik because they delivered two solid skates when it counted, and B&S's skate never happened. S&Z were not even close in that LP, based on how everyone skated.

judgejudy27
03-08-2012, 11:32 PM
Shen & Zhou robbed in 2000? Definitely not. They were in fact lucky to win silver, and many said so at the time as well. They had 4 mistakes in their long program, and their technical marks to be as high as they were a joke, particularly when the French had only 1 mistakes (granted a fall on a throw) and received lower tech. marks, and Sale & Pelletier had 3 mistakes on jumps but did everything else cleanly and received 5.4s and 5.5s for technical vs the 5.7s and 5.8s of Shen & Zhou (probably the only time I would ever say S&P were underscored compared to S&Z). They could have just as easily been 3rd or 4th, although I didnt have a problem with their coming 2nd, 1st no way. As Vash01 said they werent even a good artistic team yet, they were a great technical team, so they werent ever going to win by missing alot of their major elements.

It would be interesting if Elena & Anton winning in 2000 would have solidified their reputation as the dominant team to the point it would have been much harder for Sale & Pelletier to be pushed above them in the coming seasons. After an unconvincing season, then missing Worlds, it made it easier for TPTB to help push S&P to the top very soon, even after bombing their Nice LP.

Aussie Willy
03-09-2012, 01:25 AM
2000 was one of the scariest pairs events I remember watching. After Palamarchuk fell it was like everyone freaked out. P&T freaked out the least and that is why they probably won. Still have the image of Chris Wirtz being interviewed and just not saying anything.

Vash01
03-09-2012, 04:43 PM
Shen & Zhou robbed in 2000? Definitely not. They were in fact lucky to win silver, and many said so at the time as well. They had 4 mistakes in their long program, and their technical marks to be as high as they were a joke, particularly when the French had only 1 mistakes (granted a fall on a throw) and received lower tech. marks, and Sale & Pelletier had 3 mistakes on jumps but did everything else cleanly and received 5.4s and 5.5s for technical vs the 5.7s and 5.8s of Shen & Zhou (probably the only time I would ever say S&P were underscored compared to S&Z). They could have just as easily been 3rd or 4th, although I didnt have a problem with their coming 2nd, 1st no way. As Vash01 said they werent even a good artistic team yet, they were a great technical team, so they werent ever going to win by missing alot of their major elements.

It would be interesting if Elena & Anton winning in 2000 would have solidified their reputation as the dominant team to the point it would have been much harder for Sale & Pelletier to be pushed above them in the coming seasons. After an unconvincing season, then missing Worlds, it made it easier for TPTB to help push S&P to the top very soon, even after bombing their Nice LP.

The 5.7 & 5.8 tech marks for that performance by S&Z was a joke. With B&S absent, S&Z and S&P were expected to compete for the top spot, but both crumbled under the pressure, and P&T easily sneaked in to win. It helped that P&T had been very consistent throughout the season too. Unfortunately the judges gave P&T no respect the following year, and the years after that, even though they added a throw 3 loop (in place of throw 3t) to their LP and even added sbs 3S (although I don't think they ever landed those in a competition). P&T really had no chance to win an Olympic medal in 2002, with the top 3 dominating, and I&Z and T&M showing improvements.

I agree that if B&S had skated at the 2000 worlds, and won, they would have been 3 time world champions and it would have been harder for the politics to just move S&P ahead of them the following year. B&S would have received the benefit of the doubt at the 2001 worlds, not S&P. OTOH, B&S's presence would have taken the pressure off S&Z and S&P and both pairs would have skated better than they did. So again, it's hard to predict, but B&S were head and shoulders above everyone at that time, if they skated nearly clean (no more than one mistake). IMO there was a good chance that B&S would have gone to the 2002 Olympics as 4-time world champions and there would not have been a judging controversy. It's amazing how one incident (Elena failing the drug test after the 2000 Europeans) changes the history of a sport.

IMO at the 2006 Oly, P&T had a better chance of winning a medal but they skated poorly in the LP, after a strong SP. In 2006, only T&M were a dominant pair, and they were very consistent. S&Z were coming off an injury. Pang & Tong were not quite there yet, and Zhang & Zhang were held up big time, after their horrific fall in the LP. S&S were not quite there, and they made some mistakes too. P&T never had great speed, so the mistakes took them completely out of any chance at a medal at the Olys. At the worlds that year though they were robbed once again, by finishing in 3rd place behind Pang & Tong (with a fall) and Z&Z with a poorly skated LP (P&T did place ahead of Z&Z in the LP, but not by enough points).

I am one of the few that actually liked Pet-Tik, particularly Maria. She had a nice posture, she was consistent, and they had better lines and unison than the Chinese pairs. There was no way they could have competed in 2010 though, and if they had, they might have placed even lower than in 2006.

PashaFan
03-09-2012, 05:22 PM
The 5.7 & 5.8 tech marks for that performance by S&Z was a joke. With B&S absent, S&Z and S&P were expected to compete for the top spot, but both crumbled under the pressure, and P&T easily sneaked in to win. It helped that P&T had been very consistent throughout the season too. Unfortunately the judges gave P&T no respect the following year, and the years after that, even though they added a throw 3 loop (in place of throw 3t) to their LP and even added sbs 3S (although I don't think they ever landed those in a competition). P&T really had no chance to win an Olympic medal in 2002, with the top 3 dominating, and I&Z and T&M showing improvements.

I agree that if B&S had skated at the 2000 worlds, and won, they would have been 3 time world champions and it would have been harder for the politics to just move S&P ahead of them the following year. B&S would have received the benefit of the doubt at the 2001 worlds, not S&P. OTOH, B&S's presence would have taken the pressure off S&Z and S&P and both pairs would have skated better than they did. So again, it's hard to predict, but B&S were head and shoulders above everyone at that time, if they skated nearly clean (no more than one mistake). IMO there was a good chance that B&S would have gone to the 2002 Olympics as 4-time world champions and there would not have been a judging controversy. It's amazing how one incident (Elena failing the drug test after the 2000 Europeans) changes the history of a sport.

IMO at the 2006 Oly, P&T had a better chance of winning a medal but they skated poorly in the LP, after a strong SP. In 2006, only T&M were a dominant pair, and they were very consistent. S&Z were coming off an injury. Pang & Tong were not quite there yet, and Zhang & Zhang were held up big time, after their horrific fall in the LP. S&S were not quite there, and they made some mistakes too. P&T never had great speed, so the mistakes took them completely out of any chance at a medal at the Olys. At the worlds that year though they were robbed once again, by finishing in 3rd place behind Pang & Tong (with a fall) and Z&Z with a poorly skated LP (P&T did place ahead of Z&Z in the LP, but not by enough points).

I am one of the few that actually liked Pet-Tik, particularly Maria. She had a nice posture, she was consistent, and they had better lines and unison than the Chinese pairs. There was no way they could have competed in 2010 though, and if they had, they might have placed even lower than in 2006.

I agree, I also liked Petrova/Tikhanov. They had some really good skates.
In 2000 I liked all three of their Grand Prix events (Nations Cup, Skate Canada & NHK Trophy) free skates. I wish they had kept that programe for the Worlds & Euros in 01'. Their Short programe at the 2006 Olympics got the biggest reaction from the crowd & at the Europeans before that.

Yazmeen
03-09-2012, 05:50 PM
I preferred Pet/Tik to B and S. IIRC, they got along well with Shen/Zhao and at one competition after the medals, he picked up Xue Shen from the stands (Hongbo was still off-ice with his injury) and skated her around in his arms. :) Great and underrated couple, Pet and Tik.

Vash01
03-09-2012, 06:48 PM
I preferred Pet/Tik to B and S. IIRC, they got along well with Shen/Zhao and at one competition after the medals, he picked up Xue Shen from the stands (Hongbo was still off-ice with his injury) and skated her around in his arms. :) Great and underrated couple, Pet and Tik.

You liked P&T better than B&S just because they got along well with S&Z?:confused:

BTW B&S were perhaps the most gracious pair when something terrible was done to them, in 2002.

Petrova-Tikhonov were very nice people. Even when they got shafted many times, they were very gracious. I was at the 2006 worlds when Alexei picked up Shen from the stands, and I think they should have placed higher than 3rd, but that does not mean they were a better pair/skaters than B&S who were the best pair when they were eligible. I guess people like skaters for different reasons that even go beyond skating, and I guess it's OK.

Yazmeen
03-09-2012, 07:02 PM
No, I actually preferred their skating to B and S. Sorry, but B and S didn't grab me. I've mentioned before that sometimes they both appeared to have their heads in different places, not together, and that showed in their skating IMO. (As for the "something terrible," that's a matter of opinion, and this isn't the thread for that. However, yes, they were very gracious then).

P and T just had a nice strong style that I liked. The S/Z story was just an anecdote that I remembered that contributed to liking them.

pani
03-09-2012, 07:10 PM
For me its Kurt Brauning (far away from others), Bourne-Kraatz, Annenko-Stretenskiy, Alexandr Fadeev, Igor Bobrin.
And i love Anna Kondrashova (Levandi), Elelna Lyashenko and Viktoria Volchkova on ice style.

Vash01
03-09-2012, 07:32 PM
I too liked Anna Kondrashova's artistry. She just could not land triple jumps consistently, so she could not move up in world rankings after triples were indispensable for a medal.

briancoogaert
03-09-2012, 07:38 PM
It wasn't even close. S&Z had three significant errors. Petrova-Tikhonov's only mistake- IIRC- was Maria slightly two footed the landing of the double toe of the jump sequence. Other than that they had a very solid skate. Remind you, these were not S&Z of 2003! They had no artistry, and they had to depend solely on their technical elments. When they made 3 mistakes, the door was wide open for anyone.
Ooops, I guess I need to rewatch it !
I remember their program and the lack of unisson, I remember the mistakes, but it was small mistakes and that PetTikh had at least one. ;)

Moka-Ananas
03-27-2012, 07:46 PM
Now that she has retired: Laura Lepistö