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Cheylana
03-07-2012, 12:23 AM
I personally think if the judges wanted to place Stojko over Candelero in the long program, they would have, even knowing it wouldnt affect the final results (probably) either way. There was tons of room between Candelero and Kulik's scores too do so. They obviously didnt. In either case the fact you dont feel confident putting Eldredge over Stojko, means you cant be totally sure of him beating Candelero who did beat Stojko in the LP.
Didn't say I'm sure but I still somehow feel like that is what would have happened. Six-triple Eldredge >>> six-triple Candeloro.

But what I do feel sure about is that no way Candeloro's sloppy performance goes ahead of a clean Eldredge.

Aussie Willy
03-07-2012, 02:28 AM
I would suggest that Candeloro's step sequence is what got him a medal. It just worked. There was no denying that he was incredibly entertaining and the judges had to give him credit for the fact that conceptually and musically he was miles ahead of everyone else. Todd was quite elegant and clean, but boring.

BreakfastClub
03-07-2012, 03:57 AM
Now I'll quibble. Candeloro took bronze at 1995 Worlds and Yagudin at 1997. I don't see how you could say Yagudin didn't "invade" the world podium in those years.

Ooops. :o Total brain fart on my part. Getting old. Following the sport too long. I should fact check before I post. :slinkaway

Seerek
03-08-2012, 04:32 AM
Some considerations

Ladies with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic Medal

2 bronze - Tiffany Chin, Claudia Kristofics-Binder
1 silver, 1 bronze - Julie Lynn Holmes
2 silver - Claudia Leistner
1 gold, 1 bronze - Jill Trenary
1 silver, 2 bronze - Fumie Suguri, Carolina Kostner
3 silver - Surya Bonaly
1 gold, 2 bronze - Maria Butyrskaya
1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze - Elaine Zayak


Men with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic Medal

2 bronze - Takeshi Honda, Michael Weiss, Gary Visconti
1 silver, 1 bronze - Christopher Bowman, Norbert Schramm
1 gold, 3 bronze - Alexander Fadeev
4 gold, 1 silver - Kurt Browning
1 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze - Todd Eldredge, Brian Joubert

Pairs with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic medal

2 bronze - Starbuck and Shelley
1 silver, 1 bronze - Pestova and Leonovich
1 gold, 1 bronze - Underhill and Martini
1 gold, 1 silver - Kavarikova and Novotny
1 silver, 2 bronze - Meno and Sand (Sand with an additional bronze with Kuchiki)
1 gold, 2 bronze - Babilonia and Gardner
1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze - Eltsova and Bushkov, Shishkova and Naumov
1 gold, 1 silver, 2 bronze - Petrova and Tikhnov
1 gold, 3 silver, 1 bronze - Baess and Thierbach

Vash01
03-08-2012, 04:40 AM
Did Johnny Weir win two world bronze medals or just one?

Yuka Sato won just one world medal, but it was a gold.

Petrova-Tikhonov: 1 gold, 1 bronze

judgejudy27
03-08-2012, 04:57 AM
Did Johnny Weir win two world bronze medals or just one?

Yuka Sato won just one world medal, but it was a gold.

Petrova-Tikhonov: 1 gold, 1 bronze

Petrova & Tikhonov actually have 1 gold (2000), 1 silver (2005), 2 bronze (2003, 2006), and 4 4th place finishes (1999, 2001, 2002, 2004). That should look even better IMHO as they were totally robbed of bronze in 1999, a bronze in 2002, and a silver or gold in 2006. They amazingly never finished lower than 4th at a Worlds they completed, but were only 6th and 5th at their two Olympics.

SkateFan66
03-08-2012, 06:55 AM
Did Johnny Weir win two world bronze medals or just one?

Weir won Bronze in 2008.

julieann
03-08-2012, 05:28 PM
Petrova & Tikhonov actually have 1 gold (2000), 1 silver (2005), 2 bronze (2003, 2006), and 4 4th place finishes (1999, 2001, 2002, 2004). That should look even better IMHO as they were totally robbed of bronze in 1999, a bronze in 2002, and a silver or gold in 2006. They amazingly never finished lower than 4th at a Worlds they completed, but were only 6th and 5th at their two Olympics.

No offense to P/T but B/S didn't compete in 2000 because of her doping violation so it was much easier for P/T to win gold, otherwise it would have been a silver. Same with their European golds in 1999-2000.

alilou
03-08-2012, 05:31 PM
Some considerations.......snip


Thank you for this. What a great list.

Could you do it for dance too please :shuffle:

Vash01
03-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Petrova & Tikhonov actually have 1 gold (2000), 1 silver (2005), 2 bronze (2003, 2006), and 4 4th place finishes (1999, 2001, 2002, 2004). That should look even better IMHO as they were totally robbed of bronze in 1999, a bronze in 2002, and a silver or gold in 2006. They amazingly never finished lower than 4th at a Worlds they completed, but were only 6th and 5th at their two Olympics.

They were also robbed of an opportunity to win a medal at the 2001 world, when their clean SP was placed lower than a pair that made a major mistake, and they did not get any benefit of being the defending world champions at that time. Their Olympic placements, however, were correct. It's not like they skated poorly, but there were better pairs.

Seerek
03-08-2012, 05:39 PM
Thank you for this. What a great list.

Could you do it for dance too please :shuffle:

No problem.... ;)

Dance Teams with 2 or more World medals but no Olympic Medal:

1 silver, 1 bronze - Moniotte and Lavanchy, Rahkamo and Kokko
2 silver - Dubreuil and Lauzon
3 bronze - Blumberg and Seibert
2 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze - Denkova and Staviski
1 gold, 1 silver, 4 bronze - Bourne and Kraatz


By the way, the fact that Todd Eldredge and Brian Joubert have the exact same distribution of their 6 world championship medals is quite something!


1 gold, 3 silver, 2 bronze - Todd Eldredge, Brian Joubert

Vash01
03-08-2012, 05:43 PM
No offense to P/T but B/S didn't compete in 2000 because of her doping violation so it was much easier for P/T to win gold, otherwise it would have been a silver. Same with their European golds in 1999-2000.

There is never a guarantee. You can't say that B&S would not have made major mistakes at the 2000 worlds. Their suspension in 2000 was sad, and IMO it derailed their career completely. The fact that they even stayed in contention for a world and Olympic gold after that is a tribute to their perseverance. However, I would not take anything away from P&T when it comes to their 2000 worlds title. They skated well in every competition they entered that season, and should have beaten B&S in the GPF for 3rd place (this, from a B&S fan!). It was only after the 2000 worlds that Maria had an injury and they (P&T) could not progress further. They were still good enough to medal, but did not, in many competitions. They should have won the bronze in the 2002 worlds though.

julieann
03-08-2012, 06:06 PM
There is never a guarantee. You can't say that B&S would not have made major mistakes at the 2000 worlds. Their suspension in 2000 was sad, and IMO it derailed their career completely. The fact that they even stayed in contention for a world and Olympic gold after that is a tribute to their perseverance. However, I would not take anything away from P&T when it comes to their 2000 worlds title. They skated well in every competition they entered that season, and should have beaten B&S in the GPF for 3rd place (this, from a B&S fan!). It was only after the 2000 worlds that Maria had an injury and they (P&T) could not progress further. They were still good enough to medal, but did not, in many competitions. They should have won the bronze in the 2002 worlds though.

They certainly could have made a mistake but after beating them in the GPF, Russian Nationals and the European Championships earlier in the season my money would have been on B/S to pull out another win. Especially since P/T had never beaten them.

kwanfan1818
03-08-2012, 06:34 PM
If P/T were robbed in 2001 or 2002, they were gifted at 2003 Worlds. His stamina was awful, and several lifts almost came to a complete stop. Their style and line were neither the same nor complementary, and few of their elements were exceptional. They always seemed to be the oddball Russian pair.

Dubreuil/Lauzon looked like they were on their way to a medal until the disaster in the OD.

judgejudy27
03-08-2012, 07:16 PM
Petrova & Tikhonov might well have won the 2000 Worlds even had Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze competed although obviously a clean B&S would have won easily. That was a crazy and wide open year for pairs, nobody dominating. Petrova & Tikhonov had been the most consistent pair all season, the only pair to not one of their regular grand prix outings. Although they came 4th at the Grand Prix final they were the only pair to skate cleanly there, but that particular panel was clearly not on their side. Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze were having one of their most subpar seasons and were very up and down. It wouldnt surprise me much if they made enough errors to not win Worlds, although they might well have won too of course, it is no certainty.