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mia joy
03-05-2012, 10:15 PM
Funny that there are no post-2000 skaters on the list, I could definitely think of some who could also make the list. Delobel/Schoenfelder and Brian Joubert come to mind, for example.

icellist
03-05-2012, 10:35 PM
We should create a new thread for greatest alters that never made it to the Olympics: yukari nakano. I felt really bad for her and maybe Alissa czisny if she doesn't stick around until Sochi

julieann
03-05-2012, 10:35 PM
I would have to leave Rudy off the list as well :(

nylynnr
03-05-2012, 10:39 PM
Bowman and Bobek, the lazy and hard partying underachievers, please.

The coupling of Bowman and Bobek is hardly unique to judgejudy, it happens a lot when fans do retrospectives. But for whatever reason, I just want to point out that whatever Bowman's flaws, he never went to a world championships or Olympics and gave an embarrassing, or even "hot mess," type of performance (on the ice, at least). IIRC in four Olympic programs he fell once and turned out of perhaps two or three other jumps. He was never lower than 7th at worlds, and that 7th was after two really fine free skating programs in 1987. He also had a string of fine Skate America performances and, with the exception of the 1990 Goodwill Games, I don't remember many really poor international programs. Unfortunately much as I like her the same cannot be said of Bobek.

Susan M
03-05-2012, 10:46 PM
for me he is one of the greatest skaters never to have medalled at Olympics
For me, Browning is THE greatest skater never to have medalled at the Olympics.


As for Todd, despite that he would be a worthy inclusion on the list, he was rarely ever expected to medal as it turned out. In 92 and 2002 he wasnt for different reasons despite being the reigning World bronze medalists.

I disagree with this. When I saw the subject, Todd was actually the first skater I thought of. Going into the 98 Olympics, I think most folks assumed the podium would be him, Kulik, & Stojko in some order. Folks did not expect Candeloro to come up with programs like that after wandering in the wilderness for the previous couple years.

ITA about the author's logic - make a "best skaters who never medalled" list but exclude the very ones who were actually good enough to be expected to medal. :huh: I think they needed a different headline, like "skaters I used to enjoy watching who were not really good enough or dedicated enough to medal at the Olympics or who got really unlucky with injuries". Or maybe "skaters who should have medalled at the Olympics but got jobbed" would have been fun, too.

leesaleesa
03-06-2012, 12:04 AM
Kurt Browning, obviously.

Maria Butyrskaya. Much more so than Harding or Bobek. She may have gotten shafted in Nagano for bronze.

I vaguely remember Urbanski/Marval because he was a truck driver, and she got into some sort of fight with a speed skater or something. Being the top pairs skaters in the US usually meant top 10 internationally, not a medalist. Didn't John Zimmerman and that girl he skated with come closer than Urbanski/Marval?

duane
03-06-2012, 12:05 AM
Actually the whole list is ridiculous. Tiffany Chin, Elaine Zayak, Surya Bonaly, Tonya Harding, and Jill Trenary could all be on a top 10 ladies singles to never win an Olympic medal, but it is doubtful any of them would have made a top 10 considering all disciplines.
I disagree about Tonya. I think she easily makes a top 10 with all disciplines considered.

HSGP21
03-06-2012, 01:20 AM
Kurt for sure. I also do agree with Todd...1998 was heartbreaking.

In terms of US pairs, Kyoko Ina (with either partner) is a better choice than Urbanski and Marvel.

Punsalen and Swallow, Bourne and Kratz, and Dubreuil and Lazon are all good choices in dance...

Aussie Willy
03-06-2012, 01:33 AM
Not having Browning and having Bonaly doesn't give the list credit.

judgejudy27
03-06-2012, 01:41 AM
I disagree with this. When I saw the subject, Todd was actually the first skater I thought of. Going into the 98 Olympics, I think most folks assumed the podium would be him, Kulik, & Stojko in some order. Folks did not expect Candeloro to come up with programs like that after wandering in the wilderness for the previous couple years.


That is basically the same thing I said. The 98 Olympics are really the only Olympics he was expected to medal in. As for Candelero, I agree, but what about young Yagudin who skated the best performances of the year at Cup of Russia. As it turns out even with Yagudin opening the door for him with a poor free skating performance, he still probably couldnt have medaled, since Candelero did so well in the long program, even beating Stojko in the long. If we presume a clean Todd wasnt capable of beating Stojko in the long program, it means he wouldnt have been able to beat Candelero either, and with the short program placings would not have medaled.

I still agree with him being on the short list of best skaters to not medal due to all his World medals, but as it is, it would have been hard for him to ever medal nonetheless.

RFOS
03-06-2012, 01:45 AM
If we presume a clean Todd wasnt capable of beating Stojko in the long program, it means he wouldnt have been able to beat Candelero either, and with the short program placings would not have medaled.

I don't think one can presume that at all, considering even with his very subpar performance Todd took 3 ordinals from Stojko in the free skate (as well as 2 from Candeloro).

http://winter-olympic-memories.com/html/results/jp_3d/18_nagano/18_figure/18_figure_m_ex.htm

Vagabond
03-06-2012, 01:45 AM
My Top Eight (not in order of preference):

Denkova & Staviski
Delobel & Schoenfelder
Babilonia & Gardner
Biellmann
Butyrskaya
Harding
Browning
Joubert

Plenty of others who could be in the Top Ten: Fadeev, Eldredge, Sato, Ando, Zayak, etc.

judgejudy27
03-06-2012, 01:52 AM
I disagree about Tonya. I think she easily makes a top 10 with all disciplines considered.

In terms of pure skating talent I definitely agree, but I dont think an accurate list is based mostly on talent and (unfullfilled) potential. In terms of her overall career and how much a factor she was, she wouldnt be close to top 10 with all disciplines considered. She was only a medal contender at one Olympics and only the 3rd favorite going into that one.

kwanfan1818
03-06-2012, 02:11 AM
I agree with Chin and Harding. I'd add Blumberg/Seibert, Kurt Browning, Alexander Abt, Pestova/Leonovich, Delobel/Schoenfelder, Rakhamo/Kokko, John Misha Petkevich, Gary Beacom, Toller Cranston.

Conga
03-06-2012, 02:22 AM
Kurt Browning definitely, Butyrskaya, Babilonia/Gardner, Rakkamo/Koko (terribly underrated IMO)