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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread 15: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Rhythm



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Macassar88
03-30-2012, 06:28 AM
It's really funny because I've heard a lot of DW fans saying that they should leave too... What if they both leave and get ****ed over like Tanith and Ben did and the Shibs become world champions? LOL
I don't know if I want Tessa and Scott to leave Marina and Igor, but I definitely want them to get choreo elsewhere. I already mentioned Ingo Steuer a while back. Christopher Dean could be nice too, but I've never really thought about Scott and Tessa doing ultra voidy stuff.
Also, if they want a challenge, they could always go to Kustarova and Aleexeva (Bobrova and Soloviev's coaches) and show the world that they can perform lights out with shitty choreo.

Macassar88
03-30-2012, 06:36 AM
I thought the CBC interview after was quite cute- Scott was so adamant about the skate still being good, even if Tessa is such a perfectionist. Just demonstrates how different the two are, but how much they love each other and fit together so well.

Link to the interview please?

Shayii
03-30-2012, 06:40 AM
Man have I missed out! I'm so happy they won, but I haven't even seen their performance or any of the other teams and I don't think I'll have time gotta pack. Congratulations to V/M again!! Thinking back on the roller coaster of emotions we've had in this thread this season now all seems so amusing lol. There are some real nasty and evil comments directed at V/M, not on this board, but elsewhere. Some were even praying and hoping they would fall during their performance. But whatever nothing can ruin this for me.

Bournekraatzfan
03-30-2012, 06:42 AM
Was going to post this on the other thread but I decided to put it here instead.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-rt-figure-skating-worldscoring-pixl3e8eu0pk-20120329,0,2967509.story?page=1

This is an article saying how even T/S were puzzled at their win. That is pure conjecture. Yes there are little bobbles here and there and V/M had to fight through the performance. Luckily it wasn't on their elements and they could still get most of the levels and superb GOE across the board. At the end that it showed with their mark that they did not get a SB for the performance wasn't the best of the season. Still the win was well deserved with their quality skate and technical merits.


It's just that at the same time D/W couldn't get the level 4s for the step sequences despite how well they think they skated. There are experts here on FSU even pointed out Meryl's edge quality may not be good enough to get top levels. The whole "everyone beside the judges thought D/W should win including Tessa and Scott" comment is pure bull.

And then there is Phil Hersh's article.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/globetrotting/chi-a-very-quick-read-on-ice-dance-at-world-meet-20120329,0,2687379.column

All I can is: Oh Phil, never change :lol:.

Thanks for posting, walei. I agree with you. I read the first article in the D&W thread and cringed. I love how "a few bobbles here and there" turns into "littered with bobbles..." Taking liberties, I would say. and yes, I doubt this reporter polled everyone in the arena and discovered that they unanimously felt that D&W deserved the win. This article is :rolleyes: but then, a lot of the newspaper articles on FS are.

And I can't stand Hersh because he doesn't even appear to make any serious attempt at familiarizing himself with COP (and he is mean-spirited to boot). The system is far from perfect, but if you are going to critique it and call a score/result into question in a newspaper, at least educate yourself on that system and make an attempt to understand and explain to readers why the judges may have produced such a score/result. And if you truly believe there is no plausible explanation other than corrupt judging, you are better served by citing the actual rules that govern the event and showing how those rules were incorrectly interpreted or completely disregarded than by simply calling the event a farce and claiming that the judges just gave out scores that fit a result that was determined prior to the event. The numbers aren't just pulled out of the sky--there are levels and GOEs and programs components marks that we can see and make reference to when discussing results.

tapper88
03-30-2012, 06:43 AM
Macassar88,I'll try to find the interview online, but watched it on TV!

Macassar88
03-30-2012, 06:44 AM
Any chance that any techy people can explain the different levels that V/M got vs D/W? I know that they need a certain number of difficult movements, but I can't really identify them, so I generally look at footwork from a GOE perspective, but I can't tell whether something is level 1 or level 4.

Bournekraatzfan
03-30-2012, 06:50 AM
Man have I missed out! I'm so happy they won, but I haven't even seen their performance or any of the other teams and I don't think I'll have time gotta pack. Congratulations to V/M again!! Thinking back on the roller coaster of emotions we've had in this thread this season now all seems so amusing lol. There are some real nasty and evil comments directed at V/M, not on this board, but elsewhere. Some were even praying and hoping they would fall during their performance. But whatever nothing can ruin this for me.

I, too, have seen some really awful things written about V&M on the internet, and I think it's pretty sad that certain individuals choose to behave in such a manner. They don't have to like V&M or agree with their wins, but they certainly don't have to bash them or spread nasty and ridiculous rumours about them either. and why would anyone wish for another skater/team to fall? just sad.

I love D&W, but right now I am just enjoying celebrating what was, IMO, a well deserved WC with my fellow V&M ubers in this thread. I love all the positive comments in here and enjoy reading what everyone thought of the event (and what interesting dreams it caused them to have;) ), and I hope we can ignore the negativity and just celebrate this win. Maybe we can make our own bubble (and hope it remains troll-free) :)

I hope you have a terrific spring break, Shayii!

Bue
03-30-2012, 08:23 AM
From this interview: http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/03/virtue-and-moir-recapture-world-title/

"I think we are excited about the vision that Marina and Igor have for us for the next couple of years. We’re lucky to have them.”

Realisitally, we always knew a change was never on the cards. And it's clearly confirmed. Pleeeaaase Marina, let them have some outside input! Same goes for D/W.

Carmen Ovsiannikov
03-30-2012, 08:28 AM
What upsets me is that people are allowed to point out that Virtue and Moir had mistakes in their program (which they did, I'll be the first one to say that they made mistakes, the first being that they took out the tap dance section which was my favorite part) but we aren't allowed to point out that other teams made mistakes without being yelled at.

ITA.

V&M did have mistakes but they weren't major ones and the way CoP is supposed to work is that they may have lost points (levels and GOE's) for those mistakes but what they did in the rest of the program more than made up for those bobbles. This type of situation always makes me think back to Sasha Cohen's silver medal in Torino and why I feel she won that silver despite the uproar.

And I guess I shouldn't point out the mistakes that the others teams made as well either which also helped to balance it out.

:rolleyes: to those two articles. Tessa's and Scott's reaction wasn't because they felt they shouldn't have won but because they wanted to be clean. After the season they've had I can image V&M wanted to :kickass: in both the SD and FD. Of course those are two American papers so there is that.

Shayii
03-30-2012, 08:32 AM
I, too, have seen some really awful things written about V&M on the internet, and I think it's pretty sad that certain individuals choose to behave in such a manner. They don't have to like V&M or agree with their wins, but they certainly don't have to bash them or spread nasty and ridiculous rumours about them either. and why would anyone wish for another skater/team to fall? just sad.

I love D&W, but right now I am just enjoying celebrating what was, IMO, a well deserved WC with my fellow V&M ubers in this thread. I love all the positive comments in here and enjoy reading what everyone thought of the event (and what interesting dreams it caused them to have;) ), and I hope we can ignore the negativity and just celebrate this. Maybe we can make our own bubble (and hope it remains troll-free) :)

I hope you have a terrific spring break, Shayii!

It made me mad cuz you don't have to like a team and you can certainly disagree about them winning and why another should have won, but IDK some (actually all) the comments I saw on LJ were so childish and immature. They even created new lyrics for funny face, one was called "I hate your ugly faces" :rolleyes:. Sorry, I felt like venting a bit.

Anyways thanks Bournekraatzfan!! I will, I'm ready to be in Vegas already :D.

Carmen Ovsiannikov
03-30-2012, 09:36 AM
I usually try to stay off most of the other message boards/blogs/LJ pages. I'm not sure how or why but it seems that V&M have taken on the role usually reserved for the top Russian team (maybe because there is no Russian team in medal contention yet). They have been cast (again by some/many?) as evil people who don't have the actual talent to win a competition without the use of some underhanded means. :wall:

I agree that I can understand thinking someone else should have won but it is a bit frustrating to try and discuss anything when some ignore V&M's talent and what they are capable of on the ice. Meanwhile it seems as if the mistakes made by others are ignored or glossed over. V&M didn't skate their best but neither did D&W.

Bournekraatzfan
03-30-2012, 10:23 AM
I usually try to stay off most of the other message boards/blogs/LJ pages. I'm not sure how or why but it seems that V&M have taken on the role usually reserved for the top Russian team (maybe because there is no Russian team in medal contention yet). They have been cast (again by some/many?) as evil people who don't have the actual talent to win a competition without the use of some underhanded means. :wall:

I agree that I can understand thinking someone else should have won but it is a bit frustrating to try and discuss anything when some ignore V&M's talent and what they are capable of on the ice. Meanwhile it seems as if the mistakes made by others are ignored or glossed over. V&M didn't skate their best but neither did D&W.

I agree. As I said earlier, I am fine with people questioning a result and believing that another team should have won (and indeed have done this myself), but I don't understand why V&M's win is so out of the question? They skated really well today and as many of us have pointed out, both teams had their (minor) issues. I get that some people don't care for FF as a program, but I would like to see that treated separately from V&M's actual execution of the program's concept (that is, their conveyance of theme, engagement of/with music, etc.). I would also like to see more people citing the judging criteria when deciding that the wrong team won due to corrupt judging (and that apparently, the team that was robbed deserved such a decisive victory over the team that was 'held up'). As I said above, those numbers aren't just pulled out of the sky.

HSGP21
03-30-2012, 11:03 AM
I hope Tessa and Scott stay in their bubble a bit, or at least away from American news (if you can call it that) that is claiming a judging disgrace.

I really believe this event brought to light what we already knew (though a few lost their confidence during parts of this year): Tessa Virtue and Scott Moir are the best ice dancers in the world. Their basic skating skills are far superior to any other team, and that matters. Being flashy and fast is great, but those are different types of skills...admirable, but they don't make you the BEST in the world. They don't show mastery of the sport.

I do love the idea (sarcasm) that Tessa and Scott had been on a losing streak, and how this event suddenly changed that and revealed the judges bias. Last season, they were competing for their free dance for the first time at worlds, and won the SD in both their events. Doesn't exactly spell losing streak to me. They narrowly lost the GPF, and have significantly changed their program due to judges suggestions since then. You add in those changes, and you find that they win by a larger margin. It only makes sense.

The bobbles on non-elements might tarnish the overall feel in the perfectionists eyes, but it should in no way diminish what they accomplished in winning the world title. Anyone who is complaining should read up on what the difference between ice dance (edge, flow, story) and pairs (speed, tricks, lifts) and take a refresher on COP.

sorry to ramble....I hope they are celebrating together with their families and feel very proud of what they accomplished.

PashaFan
03-30-2012, 11:04 AM
First I want to say I'm very happy for Nathalie & Fabian. It was the best they skated their free dance all season. I loved Weaver/Poje free dance. Such emotion & it's been my favourite all season. But over the two rounds I think Nathalie & Fabian were the Bronze medal winners.
Next, I really enjoyed Meryl & Charlie in both dances. They are very strong & have interesting choreography. I always find something new I like about them each time I watch them skate.
Tessa & scott did not skate their best in the free dance but I still think that they were the best IMO. They are pure ice dancers. I'm very happy for them.
Also, am I the only one who thought that Marina Zueva did not look that happy when Tessa & Scott won?. She was far more involved in Meryl & Charlie IMO.
I really think it's time for one of these teams to change coaches.

4rkidz
03-30-2012, 11:31 AM
Fantastic skate technically - I'm not a big fan of that program but certainly a huge fan of their abilities - they dealt so well with the pressure of skating last and so nice to see them injury free - great job!