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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread 15: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Rhythm



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Shayii
03-15-2012, 08:03 AM
We go back to what seems to be the our thesis this season: Die Fledermaus is a piece that is popular, big, and continuous. There aren't many inflections there. The advantage it provides, and let's be honest here: it DOES provide an advantage, is that it is so overpowering that you let yourself be guided by the music. This even happened at 4CC, many people considered that to be D-W's best performance so far of that program. It hides many little flaws here and there very, very well because you, as a member of the audience, enjoy the music so much that you don't see Meryl running to catch Charlie, for instance or you don't see Charlie struggling to stay in character during elements, etc. I do think this program is genius because of the things it hides and the things it accentuates. It it is very, very smart.

Funny Face does the opposite. You see V-M GUIDING the music: they are presenting a story and bringing something that out of context might even seem inconsequential to life. The inflections work in a way that allow us to see how versatile this team is. Where Die Fledermaus is its own monster, driven by Die Fledermaus itself, Funny Face is character-driven. Here the characters are key, so V-M have two jobs: they need to focus on the characters so that the music MAKES SENSE and they need to go and dance it. I do not think Funny Face is audience-friendly because it is too complex in nature. I am trying to find a word for it and all I can come up with is that it is very meta. It's a dance about dancing and every step in that program is something you could teach if you are training dancers or choreographers. It is like a textbook, you know what I'm saying? Unlike Pani, I do not think this is a bad thing. I like my programs layered, I like to be able to identify the changes in both rhythm and texture, I like it because I am a dance nerd. But not everyone in the audience is, not every ice dance fan is. My point is that FF, being so brainy, is much harder to sell to both an audience and the judges, so it being undefeated so far this season is truly remarkable.

Whenever I try to describe both programs, well, both teams, really, because these programs epitomise what these teams stand for, I always say that Davis and White are like The New Pornographers to Virtue and Moir's Broken Social Scene LOL. One uses a lot of heart and power, the latter is more subtle and controlled, but both are great. I just happen to prefer the mystery and layers in V-M programs. Sorry about the loooong post.

Great post! You know what amazes me is that both programs are so different yet they were created by the same person (Marina), I wonder how one goes about doing that lol.

Shayii
03-15-2012, 08:13 AM
Plus fan reaction has been pretty muted, at least outside Canada. I'd be surprised if V/M get a bigger audience response than D/W at worlds, no matter how the two teams skate.



Even within Canada, I think the audience reaction to Weaver/Poje's programs have been stronger. At Worlds, I expect W&P and P&B to be the crowd favourites.

Yes I've noticed that as well and that probably contributes to why people see FF as not being fan-friendly.

pani
03-15-2012, 09:31 AM
Yes, i was talking about ice-dance.com twitter.
But maybe its OK, because even ISU press-person made all the time negative posts about competitions results or skaters. (like this was at ECh after SD). Maybe this is new style for journalists. :)
As for audience reaction. Hm.... In Finlandia look, like people like this FD. At SC reaction after FD was even better, then after W-P FD. But i was at home, so....
All began in Paris and after that press-conference. People want to show- we dont like this FD and cant understand, why they had high component score and even think P-B must have higher marks. Wasnt this a call if not for T-S (but this was T-S who must answer - why they had better marks, then P-B and why they didnt made nothing new, like OGM for aka-Pushkin), but for Marina, no?
At the end - at 4CC after FD audience still cold after FD, they didnt support them at award ceremony and all negative reaction was posted at ice-dance.com twitter.
All the time i have a two questions: 1. Why coaches, who take money for coaching and choreo, didnt made any changes during this season (after FT, TEB) and at the GPF Scott open his eyes and saw - they work so hard, but look like they did wrong things.
2. If Zueva always right, why she made people start disrespect V-M and said this in press? Its Z-Sh remember, what could bring such kind of programs to ice dancers. They did this in 2007 with B-A (and this was first step for there fall), but they change FD that time. But with V-M they didnt nothing, like all is OK.

I have feeling they couldnt say nothing to Marina. Did you remember Orange team interview?
And for me look, like you think V-M are resposible with both of there programs. But this were Zueva who made this chore, this were Zueva who remember, what music Tessa want to use, when she was a junior skater. And nobody could tell her she isnt right. Remember Z-Sh interview after OG on russian channel? She said^ "But, Igor, you know - i am alwayse right".

HSGP21
03-15-2012, 10:18 AM
They are already Olympic champions... and not only Olympic champions but the youngest champions, the first Canadian champions, and the first North American champions. Everything after that is the cherry on top of the cake. Why not stay in a training environment where they are happy and comfortable? I just still can't get over how it hurt B/A to leave...

In terms of Funny Face, it is subtly incredible, and so different from D/W and W/P, whose chances of winning a medal will triple if P/B do indeed withdraw. I think skate order will be a huge out-of-their-hands factor in terms of crowd appeal. Whoever goes last might have an advantage in terms of getting the audience excited. France will be a very unbiased audience, especially compared to Canada next year.

Emdee
03-15-2012, 10:21 AM
Interesting post Pani. In some ways I agree with you but I am not toally paranoid about it.

I think T&S now have a lot of say in choreo so agree that it some ways they have outgrown Z.

I am just thankful that DF was not used in the OLy year as it would sweep them along as someone said. Now with two years away - how much of this sweep music can they do .When T&S stared skating FF I saw how it was really parts of the whole - now as they have performed it more it looks complete - like the whole.

I thnk with a full year of training the next two years will be banner years for them. There is no one else out there who can totally bring you into the moment like T&S.

pani
03-15-2012, 10:23 AM
There will be a lot russian fans in Nice and fans from different Europian countries.
If they want simply be in comfortable situation, why not [tactice in London or Ilderton and dont spend big money on coaches aho working on your lose? :)))))))))))))
Sorry, but "comfortable" its will be skate in shows and not compete. Why not to look at Tessa and Scott and see - theyb want to take gold at WCh most then ever?

pani
03-15-2012, 10:26 AM
I thnk with a full year of training the next two years will be banner years for them. There is no one else out there who can totally bring you into the moment like T&S.

After i was angry on last year WCh results, you all said - with full year of traning.... And look, like V-M belive in this too (even if they were unhappy with results at the firts moment). And what happened?
I dont think Scott will compete, if he will lose one more time. He want to be a winner at every competition. And sorry, but i think, he didnt like FF, but wish to made made siomething pleasent to Zueva and Tessa :)

Proustable
03-15-2012, 10:36 AM
Whenever I try to describe both programs, well, both teams, really, because these programs epitomise what these teams stand for, I always say that Davis and White are like The New Pornographers to Virtue and Moir's Broken Social Scene LOL. One uses a lot of heart and power, the latter is more subtle and controlled, but both are great. I just happen to prefer the mystery and layers in V-M programs. Sorry about the loooong post.

I prefer the New Pornographers in in real life - I actually think they're quite deft (especially the lyrics).

Shayii
03-15-2012, 10:45 AM
lol do people not sleep (I'm up cuz I made the very bad decision on procrastinating on a term paper). Pani if Tessa and Scott win at worlds will you still think FF is a failure?

pani
03-15-2012, 11:03 AM
lol do people not sleep (I'm up cuz I made the very bad decision on procrastinating on a term paper). Pani if Tessa and Scott win at worlds will you still think FF is a failure?

i thought you didnt like FF :D
Yes, because this program brought disrespect to them already ;)
But what you all will tell about this programs if they will take silver? ;)

And T-S are very strong people. This couldnt be comfortable, when you see every day how your main competitors run around the ice, when you couldnt practice so hard because of injury. How this situation could be comfortable? This all for get gold at WCh, but not about comfartable (IMHO).
And didnt you think its too much pressuer on Scott? Before he didnt said such things like he did after GPF and at meeting with ISU, when they discussed pattern dance for next two seasons.

sap5
03-15-2012, 01:07 PM
Reading this thread is like watching the Saturday Night Live "Debbie Downer" skits on continuous repeat. Why do so many people love having Debbie around so much?

pani
03-15-2012, 06:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqX6JVlevM

Did they mean T-S will be at "All tha skate"?

Emdee
03-15-2012, 06:44 PM
I am sure that Tessa and Scott and also Patrick will be at ATS for the summer one. I think Yuna usually has two - one in the spring and one in the summer. Last year summer was in Korea - previous year it was in California.

lauravvv
03-15-2012, 06:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UqX6JVlevM

Did they mean T-S will be at "All tha skate"?No, as someone already wrote at the 'All That Skate' thread, they will skate in 'Canadian Stars on Ice' at that time. All the skaters in the clip are those who took part in last years 'All That Skate Summer', and all of them were then filmed for an introduction to this years show.

Golightly
03-15-2012, 06:55 PM
By the way, Pani? I don't know what gives you the impression that Scott doesn't like Funny Face. This is the most excited and more invested I have seen him about a program. I might be wrong, of course, and I don't know Scott personally, but gauging by his reaction all throughout the season, I believe he genuinely feels attached to this program.