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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread 15: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Rhythm



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flowerpower
03-15-2012, 02:29 AM
Hmm...sounds like ice network. ;) ("Virtue and Moir Win - Ho-Hum" - that was earlier in the year. :rolleyes:)

sequins
03-15-2012, 03:11 AM
Choosing a non-fan friendly program like this was definitely a risk, we'll see how it works out for them at worlds.

Sorry I really don't get how 'this' program is not fan friendly? I get it's not everyones favourite but it's very musical, light-hearted, fun, to me that's fan friendly. Again FF, still undefeated,...just sayin'.

Shayii
03-15-2012, 03:12 AM
Maybe she's referring to these tweets?

http://twitter.com/#!/icedancecom/status/168841405333114880

http://twitter.com/#!/icedancecom/status/168843772837376000

I remember being a little surprised because they're usually very supportive of all the dancers. Not really worth getting worked up over it though, a lot of people just don't like V/M and this FD in particular. Choosing a non-fan friendly program like this was definitely a risk, we'll see how it works out for them at worlds.

Oh wow I've never seen those before, thanks for posting it. I thought they were more neutral too :(, but oh well. Pani, I stand corrected lol.

ETA: What did they mean by V/M did their 'typical' thing? It doesn't sound to me like they meant that in a good way.

lavenderblue
03-15-2012, 03:20 AM
I was surprised also. I thought IDC was officially neutral about any and all ice-dance teams.

However, if they want to have an opinion one way or another it's fine by me. I doubt it has any sway with the judges, or technical panel.

I imagine Tessa and Scott will survive just fine that IDC doesn't adore them. :)

Of course, it's also probably better not to assume that one staffer tweeting during an event speaks for the entire body of journalists, or Ice-Dance as a general entity. Similar to how the "ho-hum" IceNetwork headline and piece said more about that guest writer than IN, despite its connection with the USFSA.

aka_gerbil
03-15-2012, 03:31 AM
Ouch on those tweets. I'd always thought that IDC was neutral as well.


Sorry I really don't get how 'this' program is not fan friendly? I get it's not everyones favourite but it's very musical, light-hearted, fun, to me that's fan friendly. Again FF, still undefeated,...just sayin'.

I haven't gotten the "not fan-friendly" sentiment either. Like you, I understand that it's not everyone's favorite and some just don't like the music, but the fact that it's light-hearted, fun, and set to a popular, classic musical should make it fan-friendly. *shrug*


Of course, it's also probably better not to assume that one staffer tweeting during an event speaks for the entire body of journalists, or Ice-Dance as a general entity. Similar to how the "ho-hum" IceNetwork headline and piece said more about that guest writer than IN, despite its connection with the USFSA.

I get that, but if they're tweeting from IDC's twitter account instead of their personal account, then maybe it would be better to remain neutral?

flowerpower
03-15-2012, 03:31 AM
Of course, it's also probably better not to assume that one staffer tweeting during an event speaks for the entire body of journalists, or Ice-Dance as a general entity. Similar to how the "ho-hum" IceNetwork headline and piece said more about that guest writer than IN, despite its connection with the USFSA.

I'd like to think you're right, but we'll see how things play out. The person who wrote the ice network headline was not the same person who wrote the article (and granted, they later changed the headline but still...).

Proustable
03-15-2012, 03:43 AM
I'd argue that Funny Face is actually a bit more culturally specific (Broadway-showtunes) that might limit it's impact internationally. Sorta the opposite of a warhorse, which has those easily recognizable hooks that sweeps the audience into the program (and the judges as a part of that).

Bournekraatzfan
03-15-2012, 03:44 AM
Honestly, its V-M choice, there lifes.

EXACTLY.
Honestly pani, I admire your passion but I do wish you would give Tessa and Scott a little more credit. They didn't battle back from a potentially career-ending injury for nothing. They don't train as hard as they do just so they can settle for silver (nothing against silver medals/second-place finishes, but being as amazing as they are and having achieved all that they have makes gold/first place the goal every time). I genuinely believe that they want to push themselves and continue to grow as a team, and FF is evidence of that for all the reasons sap5 had listed in a previous post in this thread. In Valse Triste and Mahler, for instance (which were themselves so different from each other), they brought the audience in...as Paul Martini noted of VT in the CBC broadcast of the 2007 WC, they really made you feel as though you were getting a glimpse into an intimate moment in their lives. With FF, they are really projecting outward, and doing a masterful job of it, IMO. Sure, the program has its critics, but it also has its admirers (just look at this thread;) )

I truly believe that Tessa and Scott know what is best for them, and will do what they have to to continue to grow as a team and push the sport forward. As has been suggested here before, perhaps the best thing we can do as fans is send them all the positive energy we can muster. Go Tessa and Scott!

Bournekraatzfan
03-15-2012, 04:01 AM
I'd argue that Funny Face is actually a bit more culturally specific (Broadway-showtunes) that might limit it's impact internationally. Sorta the opposite of a warhorse, which has those easily recognizable hooks that sweeps the audience into the program (and the judges as a part of that).

but who doesn't love the story of a lovely ingenue who comes into her own while roaming the streets of Paris in the most delicious couture? moreover, who can be immune to the charms of Tessa Virtue? ;)

Bournekraatzfan
03-15-2012, 04:08 AM
Hmm...sounds like ice network. ;) ("Virtue and Moir Win - Ho-Hum" - that was earlier in the year. :rolleyes:)

that's exactly what I thought of when I read those tweets...maybe I am being sensitive, but those tweets seem a bit dismissive of all the hard work they have put into making this free dance work and being able to lay down a solid skate at altitude when it counted...but if by "did their typical thing," they meant skated beautifully, with superb technique and wonderful musicality, then yes, I agree with them :)

but I think lavenderblue is right, it is probably one staffer

Shayii
03-15-2012, 04:14 AM
I'd argue that Funny Face is actually a bit more culturally specific (Broadway-showtunes) that might limit it's impact internationally. Sorta the opposite of a warhorse, which has those easily recognizable hooks that sweeps the audience into the program (and the judges as a part of that).

Yea I think you might be right. I think what people mean by FF not being fan-friendly, or at least what I'm getting from that, is that it's not a program when you first see it, you think wow and are immediately swept off your feet. It's a grower, I don't think many people appreciated it until they had seen the program a couple of times (and some people still don't appreciate, e.g., the IDC tweets). I also think there are more people that dislike FF than like it.


EXACTLY.
Honestly pani, I admire your passion but I do wish you would give Tessa and Scott a little more credit. They didn't battle back from a potentially career-ending injury for nothing. They don't train as hard as they do just so they can settle for silver (nothing against silver medals/second-place finishes, but being as amazing as they are and having achieved all that they have makes gold/first place the goal every time). I genuinely believe that they want to push themselves and continue to grow as a team, and FF is evidence of that for all the reasons sap5 had listed in a previous post in this thread. In Valse Triste and Mahler, for instance (which were themselves so different from each other), they brought the audience in...as Paul Martini noted of VT in the CBC broadcast of the 2007 WC, they really made you feel as though you were getting a glimpse into an intimate moment in their lives. With FF, they are really projecting outward, and doing a masterful job of it, IMO. Sure, the program has its critics, but it also has its admirers (just look at this thread;) )

I truly believe that Tessa and Scott know what is best for them, and will do what they have to to continue to grow as a team and push the sport forward. As has been suggested here before, perhaps the best thing we can do as fans is send them all the positive energy we can muster. Go Tessa and Scott!

Great post!

Zazy
03-15-2012, 04:17 AM
Sorry I really don't get how 'this' program is not fan friendly? I get it's not everyones favourite but it's very musical, light-hearted, fun, to me that's fan friendly. Again FF, still undefeated,...just sayin'.


I haven't gotten the "not fan-friendly" sentiment either. Like you, I understand that it's not everyone's favorite and some just don't like the music, but the fact that it's light-hearted, fun, and set to a popular, classic musical should make it fan-friendly. *shrug*

I think the music is hard for people to get into, especially when you compare it to Die Fledermaus. Plus fan reaction has been pretty muted, at least outside Canada. I'd be surprised if V/M get a bigger audience response than D/W at worlds, no matter how the two teams skate.

This has nothing to do with my personal liking of the program since I think it's fantastic and possibly my favourite FD of theirs. I just think it's more of a challenge to sell than, say, last year's FD. If FF does stay undefeated at worlds it will be that much more of an accomplishment. I hope it does. :)

Bournekraatzfan
03-15-2012, 05:26 AM
Welcome to FSU and the V&M thread, Zazy! I look forward to reading more of your thoughts!

Golightly
03-15-2012, 06:38 AM
We go back to what seems to be the our thesis this season: Die Fledermaus is a piece that is popular, big, and continuous. There aren't many inflections there. The advantage it provides, and let's be honest here: it DOES provide an advantage, is that it is so overpowering that you let yourself be guided by the music. This even happened at 4CC, many people considered that to be D-W's best performance so far of that program. It hides many little flaws here and there very, very well because you, as a member of the audience, enjoy the music so much that you don't see Meryl running to catch Charlie, for instance or you don't see Charlie struggling to stay in character during elements, etc. I do think this program is genius because of the things it hides and the things it accentuates. It it is very, very smart.

Funny Face does the opposite. You see V-M GUIDING the music: they are presenting a story and bringing something that out of context might even seem inconsequential to life. The inflections work in a way that allow us to see how versatile this team is. Where Die Fledermaus is its own monster, driven by Die Fledermaus itself, Funny Face is character-driven. Here the characters are key, so V-M have two jobs: they need to focus on the characters so that the music MAKES SENSE and they need to go and dance it. I do not think Funny Face is audience-friendly because it is too complex in nature. I am trying to find a word for it and all I can come up with is that it is very meta. It's a dance about dancing and every step in that program is something you could teach if you are training dancers or choreographers. It is like a textbook, you know what I'm saying? Unlike Pani, I do not think this is a bad thing. I like my programs layered, I like to be able to identify the changes in both rhythm and texture, I like it because I am a dance nerd. But not everyone in the audience is, not every ice dance fan is. My point is that FF, being so brainy, is much harder to sell to both an audience and the judges, so it being undefeated so far this season is truly remarkable.

Whenever I try to describe both programs, well, both teams, really, because these programs epitomise what these teams stand for, I always say that Davis and White are like The New Pornographers to Virtue and Moir's Broken Social Scene LOL. One uses a lot of heart and power, the latter is more subtle and controlled, but both are great. I just happen to prefer the mystery and layers in V-M programs. Sorry about the loooong post.

manhn
03-15-2012, 07:19 AM
Even within Canada, I think the audience reaction to Weaver/Poje's programs have been stronger. At Worlds, I expect W&P and P&B to be the crowd favourites.