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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread 15: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Rhythm



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Shayii
03-14-2012, 10:33 PM
I hate, when people thinking about them like about 4. Why not thinking about them like about 6? (D-W, V-M, Shibs). Or like about 10? (V-M, D-W, Shibs, C-B, T-S). They could skate like synchro skaters :lol:
I think this is what Marina want to do. She said after WCh - she did from individual sport team sport :D
This is good for group, but V-M beter, then this (IMHO). Maybe i am wrong and they are really the same skaters, like all other Canton teams :)

I'm not thinking of them as a quartet cuz I wouldn't like to see them all clumped together either. I just think it would be cool if the four of them do a group number (as flowerpower just explained that's probably not gonna happen anyways) Fortunately I don't share your hate for Meryl and Charlie, I like them, but I love Tessa and Scott and in a competition it's Tessa and Scott I'm rooting for.

flowerpower
03-14-2012, 10:39 PM
I hate, when people thinking about them like about 4. Why not thinking about them like about 6? (D-W, V-M, Shibs). Or like about 10? (V-M, D-W, Shibs, C-B, T-S). They could skate like synchro skaters :lol:
I think this is what Marina want to do. She said after WCh - she did from individual sport team sport :D
This is good for group, but V-M beter, then this (IMHO). Maybe i am wrong and they are really the same skaters, like all other Canton teams :)

I think I know where you are coming from, and let's just say that I think V/M are well aware of the challenges in Canton. Realistically though, Marina knows Tessa's legs, her doctors are nearby, and there may be no choice. You sometimes seem to blame V/M for not moving, but going to a coach who does not understand Tessa's medical history and how to avoid future flare-ups could be a very risky thing to do.

Kurt talked on the 4CC broadcast about how it will be (in his opinion) very difficult to maintain those friendships over the next couple of years. I do not envy Marina and Igor TBH since training two teams from different countries, both of whom plans to be number one, is a very difficult thing to do.

Whereas Scott and Charlie have been good friends, that will probably come under increasing strain. It's inevitable IMO. I do not think Tessa and Meryl have ever been particularly close, but I believe they have been pleasant and cordial with one another. "Cordial" might be the best to hope for over the next couple of years; that will be a good achievement. This is no one's fault really, it's the nature of the situation.

pani
03-14-2012, 10:47 PM
I'm not thinking of them as a quartet cuz I wouldn't like to see them all clumped together either. I just think it would be cool if the four of them do a group number (as flowerpower just explained that's probably not gonna happen anyways) Fortunately I don't share your hate for Meryl and Charlie, I like them, but I love Tessa and Scott and in a competition it's Tessa and Scott I'm rooting for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEqXwB3xaWk
This is teams from Stanislav Zhuk school, where Marina worked, like choreographer with G-G, Fadeev, Kondrashova. And one of this girls is former Igor wife - Verinika Pershina. FS World is very small :D
At that time group numbers was very popular. Ice dance teams skated together composly dances.

HSGP21
03-14-2012, 11:03 PM
Elena Grinenko tweeted pictures with four Canton teams, including Tessa and Scott (https://twitter.com/#!/elenagrinenko/status/179704486510596097). :)

They are so cute...I just love how comfortable they always look with each other.

pani
03-14-2012, 11:07 PM
I think I know where you are coming from, and let's just say that I think V/M are well aware of the challenges in Canton. Realistically though, Marina knows Tessa's legs, her doctors are nearby, and there may be no choice. You sometimes seem to blame V/M for not moving, but going to a coach who does not understand Tessa's medical history and how to avoid future flare-ups could be a very risky thing to do.

Kurt talked on the 4CC broadcast about how it will be (in his opinion) very difficult to maintain those friendships over the next couple of years. I do not envy Marina and Igor TBH since training two teams from different countries, both of whom plans to be number one, is a very difficult thing to do.

Whereas Scott and Charlie have been good friends, that will probably come under increasing strain. It's inevitable IMO. I do not think Tessa and Meryl have ever been particularly close, but I believe they have been pleasant and cordial with one another. "Cordial" might be the best to hope for over the next couple of years; that will be a good achievement. This is no one's fault really, it's the nature of the situation.

Honestly, its V-M choice, there lifes. Maybe they want to be sure they will take silver at WCh and next OG with Z-Sh and D-W, when without them they could have a risk to be on top or will be out of podium. And maybe they are happy with this season SD and FF FD. Maybe they cant to do more- how could i know this? Or they didnt want to do something modern, fresh. At least they didnt made this even at exibitions. But for me its hard to see - they are really uniuqe skaters, who didnt have a chance to show this with Zueva choreo. But maybe i am wrong and Mahler was there maximum.
Honestly, i feel the same way about Chan. But he have time to show really great programs. :)
V-M is very important part of Z-Sh school success. They are good role model for other skaters, who saw, what is good lines, deep edges, close positions ect. I dont think Shibs will had bronze at last year WCh is there role model was Meryl and Charlie. So in my understanding, Z-Sh need now to do everything V-M still working with them and show to others, how to skate.
But what i see in reality? They give all the same. One team have program with bombastik music, wich made 50% of there components score, Marina all time talking this FD is masterpice and they all look upset, when V-M won at 4CC.
Other team have program, wich made impression, they didnt improve since they were junior skaters, music isnt audience friendly and i see this team could look much better with different FD on another music. So yes- they are at the same level now.
And with SD its the same situation. T-S skate there last year FD, wich were better, because of this pattern rhumba in SD. And D-W from April working aith Grinenko and new style.
This what i see.
But again, maybe this is what this guys want. Maybe this whant SC want, because they saw programs at High Perfomance Camp, at GP, saw marks, but didnt say nothing to Marina.
Now i read at Russian forum - D-W at there best form, when Tessa couldnt made nothing better, then FF. Sorry, but its hard to me read this, cuz i see - they could do something better then this.

sap5
03-14-2012, 11:32 PM
But again, maybe this is what this guys want.

Or maybe this is what you want to see.

flowerpower
03-14-2012, 11:39 PM
Honestly, its V-M choice, there lifes. Maybe they want to be sure they will take silver at WCh and next OG with Z-Sh and D-W, when without them they could have a risk to be on top or will be out of podium. And maybe they are happy with this season SD and FF FD. Maybe they cant to do more- how could i know this? Or they didnt want to do something modern, fresh. At lest they didnt made this even at exibitions. But for me its hard to see - they are really uniuqe skaters, who didnt have a chance to show this with Zueva choreo. But maybe i am wrong and Mahler was there maximum.
Honestly, i feel the same way about Chan. But he have time to show really great programs. :)
V-M is very important part of Z-Sh school success. They are good role model for other skaters, who saw, what is good lines, deep edges, close positions ect. I dont think Shibs will had bronze at last year WCh is there role model was Meryl and Charlie. So in my understanding, Z-Sh need now to do everything V-M still working with them and show to others, how to skate.
But what i see in reality? They give all the same. One team have program with bombastik music, wich made 50% of there components score, Marina all time talking this FD is masterpice and they all look upset, when V-M won at 4CC.
Other team have program, wich mad impression, they didnt improve since they were junior skaters, music isnt audience friendly and i see this team could look much better with different FD on another music. So yes- they are at the same level now.
And with SD its the same situation. T-S skate there last year FD, wich were better, because of this pattern rhumba in SD. And D-W from April working aith Grinenko and new style.
This waht i see.
But again, maybe this is what this guys want. Maybe this whant SC want, because they saw programs at High Perfomance Camp, at GP, saw marks, but didnt say nothing to Marina.
Now i read at Russian forum - D-W at there best form, when Tessa couldnt made nothing better, then FF. Sorry, but its hard to me read this, cuz i see - they could do something better then this.

I'm sure they can express many types of movement - look at their technique, and their musicality. And even at their young age, they have faced some difficult challenges, so I'd expect there are many darker emotions they could portray, especially since they seem to have no inhibitions about expressing emotion toward one another.

But, if I can suggest this, try not to let your frustrations with missed opportunities make you angry with them. I am glad that they have continued to skate, when in many ways it would have been much easier to retire and forget about surgeries and rehab. It is easy to say they should do this, they should do that. We will see what time will bring.

pani
03-14-2012, 11:41 PM
Or maybe this is what you want to see.

Did you read Ice dance.com report from 4CC FD and waht they post about V-M? I didnt want to see this, but that was what they thinking about them.

pani
03-14-2012, 11:44 PM
I'm sure they can express many types of movement - look at their technique, and their musicality. And even at their young age, they have faced some difficult challenges, so I'd expect there are many darker emotions they could portray, especially since they seem to have no inhibitions about expressing emotion toward one another.

But, if I can suggest this, try not to let your frustrations with missed opportunities make you angry with them. I am glad that they have continued to skate, when in many ways it would have been much easier to retire and forget about surgeries and rehab. It is easy to say they should do this, they should do that. We will see what time will bring.

I am not angry on them. I think Zueva must or start work better, or let them find another way, like TAT did with Moiseeva-Minenkov :)
Yes, i am happy they still compete. But its a little dissapointed to see they skate all season, but coachews didnt made any changes before Scott show his dissapointment. :(
I am sure with this movenets, wich Tessa dd in FF, they could show much better programs. But why they need coaches? Because Marina know better, what they need. I am not sure....

sap5
03-15-2012, 12:21 AM
Did you read Ice dance.com report from 4CC FD and waht they post about V-M? I didnt want to see this, but that was what they thinking about them.

What did they post?

Shayii
03-15-2012, 12:43 AM
What did they post?

IDK if this is the article (http://ice-dance.com/2012-four-continents/1311-four-continents-free-dance-recap) Pani is referring to, but I don't see any negative remarks towards Tessa and Scott in it :confused:.

chantilly
03-15-2012, 01:12 AM
IDK if this is the article (http://ice-dance.com/2012-four-continents/1311-four-continents-free-dance-recap) Pani is referring to, but I don't see any negative remarks towards Tessa and Scott in it :confused:.

:rolleyes: If that is the article she is referring to, there are absolutely no negative comment. It's just Pani stirring up crap when there isn't any to stir up.

Emdee
03-15-2012, 01:30 AM
Actually Pani I was at the CSOI many years ago with B&K, G&P,L&P and U&Z. I still remember all four of them dancing the same program it was wonderful.

I honestly think that M&C cannot keep the momentum until Sochi. So if they do well this year then they will not be able to maintain this until 2014.

One has to remember that in the last 5 years V&M missed almost two seasons so yes Tessa had her problems but they were away from the pressure cooker to some extent. Now they have two seasons to recapture the magic and they are well on their way to doing that.

You are correct Chan is capable of so much but I like where he is going and he builds incrementally on what he does. That is his nature and his comfort zone. I really get pulled into Aranjuez when he skates it well like he did at Nats.

Zazy
03-15-2012, 01:57 AM
:rolleyes: If that is the article she is referring to, there are absolutely no negative comment. It's just Pani stirring up crap when there isn't any to stir up.

Maybe she's referring to these tweets?

http://twitter.com/#!/icedancecom/status/168841405333114880

http://twitter.com/#!/icedancecom/status/168843772837376000

I remember being a little surprised because they're usually very supportive of all the dancers. Not really worth getting worked up over it though, a lot of people just don't like V/M and this FD in particular. Choosing a non-fan friendly program like this was definitely a risk, we'll see how it works out for them at worlds.

maggylyn
03-15-2012, 02:12 AM
Maybe she's referring to these tweets?

http://twitter.com/#!/icedancecom/status/168841405333114880

http://twitter.com/#!/icedancecom/status/168843772837376000

I remember being a little surprised because they're usually very supportive of all the dancers. Not really worth getting worked up over it though, a lot of people just don't like V/M and this FD in particular. Choosing a non-fan friendly program like this was definitely a risk, we'll see how it works out for them at worlds.

I was surprised also. I thought IDC was officially neutral about any and all ice-dance teams.

However, if they want to have an opinion one way or another it's fine by me. I doubt it has any sway with the judges, or technical panel.

I imagine Tessa and Scott will survive just fine that IDC doesn't adore them. :)