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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread 15: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Rhythm



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Rafter
03-12-2012, 03:53 PM
An interesting read, purely because Tessa and Scott's PR challenges (and perhaps lack of initiative) are so similar. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/fashion/meryl-davis-and-charlie-white-seek-olympic-gold-in-russia-in-2014-will-endorsements-follow.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2

Interesting article. It will be tough for Davis and White to compete against the likes of Lindsay Vonn for endorsements leading up to 2014. Vonn and downhill skiing have a lot more profile than ice dancing.

Rafter
03-12-2012, 03:54 PM
I'm sure Tessa & Scott also turned down the opportunity to pose nude.

I wonder whether any skaters took ESPN up on the offer?

I doubt virtue and moir were even asked. Wouldn't American athletes primarily be asked to do such a thing?

Rafter
03-12-2012, 03:57 PM
I don't think it is necessarily directed at V and M, and I don't think it's necessarily a bitter statement. Tessa and Scott have gone above and beyond at times saying that they are NOT a couple in the media. None of their 'close' moments seem forced or staged... if anything, I'd argue perhaps they do the opposite "No this is normal, it's not because we're dating it's because we have known each other for so long."

I wouldn't be surprised if Meryl's quote was referring to V/M. Also probably Weaver and Poje.

Rafter
03-12-2012, 04:15 PM
I just don't understand the sensitivity to any D&W comment that isn't 100% positive.

We can discuss all of the other dancers without the bad feelings that come along with any D&W critique. V&M, P&B, W&P, the Shibs. I&K and B&S in particular can be discussed in very blunt and sometimes unflatering terms yet mention anything about D&W and it causes bad feelings. :confused:

And IMO, T&D probably could have skated to Bollywood. And I also believe that teams that came along in the era when the circular or diagonal footwork sequences were required could also skate it. I'm talking about teams such as DelShoes, DenStavs and even DomShabs pre injury. Of course those teams could also probably skate V&M's programs. DelShoes and DomShabs probably wouldn't be able to match the emotion and chemistry V&M have but I think they could have handled the technical difficulty required.

Long story short, I don't think saying that V&M could skate the Bollywood OD is an insult and clearly wasn't meant that way. I don't understand why it was taken as such.

Anyway, I'll go back to lurking since nothing will really be going on until Worlds.

I completely agree. I don't understand why the "Davis & White police" feel the need to come into this thread at all? :shuffle:

pani
03-12-2012, 04:37 PM
Torvill and Dean Emotions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QKH8l1DaXA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9-5tbwwn0Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM3gEVMy8G8&feature=related

How good they are :swoon: Didnt you notice something common with T-S? I mean off-ice relationships, eyes to eyes contacts.
I wish they start copy T-D skating :D

lauravvv
03-12-2012, 04:48 PM
Torvill and Dean Emotions

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QKH8l1DaXA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9-5tbwwn0Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nM3gEVMy8G8&feature=related

How good they are :swoon: Didnt you notice something common with T-S? I mean off-ice relationships, eyes to eyes contacts.
I wish they start copy T-D skating :DThanks for the wonderful videos. But I don't think that V/M should copy anyone's skating. That is not the way to become one of the most highely regarded pairs in ice dancing history. It can be said that they already are (or, at least, close to that), but that's because they have their own style and are special. I doubt that they would be as appreciated if they just copied someone else's style, even if it was Torvil/Dean's.

martyross
03-12-2012, 05:42 PM
well, one could also think that becoming "one of the greatest" may be not the main goal of an athlete. and being not original doesn't automatically mean something bad. we perceive it so because originality is one of the dogmas in the contemporary artistic evalutation. certainly, doing the exact moves that this team did, would come out very bizzarre. i'm sure T&S would never do that. but you can always taking inspiration from the inner spirit of someone's past work and make it your own. that would be interesting to see. not all the time, of course. just as an experiment. but obviously, an established choreographer like Marina Z. would hardly take from an other one.
it's not that Zoueva is not capable of making something new and different from her usual creations. but, for a change, it would be nice to see T&S doing something radically different. it would be also useful for their artistic grow on the road to Sochi. they're among the greatest already, but a sucessful trip outside Canton would give them an extra plus.

pani
03-12-2012, 05:51 PM
they're among the greatest already, but a sucessful trip outside Canton would give them an extra plus.

Nobody could say will this bring good results to them, or no.

Emdee
03-12-2012, 07:33 PM
I think T&S should have their ex numbers choreographed elsewhere as that would give them another perspective.

Bournekraatzfan
03-12-2012, 08:10 PM
I think everyone here has something valuable to contribute and I certainly hope we can all feel welcome. I really enjoy reading through this thread and getting to hear everyone's thoughts. I am sorry, I don't want to prolong this discussion, but in the interest of sorting some of this stuff out, I just wanted to say a few more things (sorry, I have a hard time putting my thoughts into words so it sometimes takes a few tries).


I just don't understand the sensitivity to any D&W comment that isn't 100% positive.

We can discuss all of the other dancers without the bad feelings that come along with any D&W critique. V&M, P&B, W&P, the Shibs. I&K and B&S in particular can be discussed in very blunt and sometimes unflatering terms yet mention anything about D&W and it causes bad feelings. :confused:

...

Long story short, I don't think saying that V&M could skate the Bollywood OD is an insult and clearly wasn't meant that way. I don't understand why it was taken as such.

...

I cringe when I see any skater being trashed, even if I don't particularly care for that skater. Some of the stuff on fsu makes me :yikes: If I were to see other teams being trashed I would respond in the same manner I have in this instance. But it is D&W who seem to be discussed frequently by the same posters, and I fail to see what relevance Meryl's weight, the shape of her legs, or the look of her face have to V&M (and I don't see reason for negative speculation about her personality, either). I don't feel responses to those comments were at all an overreaction. My hope is that we can engage in discussion that is respectful of all skaters and their hard work.

I don't think Emdee meant any disrespect either (and I believe this is evidenced by the further clarification she provided), but I can understand why taf2002 might have interpreted that comment the way they did. Tone is often difficult to discern in online posts, so this may be one reason for the confusion. But I also think that when someone says that the work of one team can be performed easily by another, it can reasonably be interpreted as a slight on the former. All teams have their strengths and work incredibly hard to be able to do what they do and I believe that was the point taf2002 was trying to make. Again, I am familiar with Emdee so I don't think that was the way in which it was meant, but I also don't think the reaction to the comment itself was unreasonable (especially given some of the stuff about D&W that has been posted here by a very small group of posters). Just to clarify, this is not to say that everyone must like D&W's skating and shy away from pointing out their weaknesses. But this can be done in a manner that respects both their talent and their hard work (and I believe most people on this forum do post in such a manner, including Emdee).

As I said earlier, I would like to continue to hear from everyone and I really, really don't want any of you to feel personally attacked. Just as I hope people can feel comfortable giving honest critiques of the skating and assessing the weaknesses of other teams, I also hope that people can assess those teams strengths, offer music/program ideas or suggest that a certain piece of music might better fit another team without being accused of being a double agent. I also don't think it is fair to bring up a skater/skaters only to say something unkind about them and then decide that we in this thread shouldn't talk about that skater/those skaters when people step in to defend them.

Sorry, I tried to just ignore this but it has been bothering me for a while. Thank you for letting me get that off my chest. I hope we can all get along better here.

:slinkaway

TanithandBenFan
03-12-2012, 08:10 PM
I'm doing a series reflecting on 2009 Worlds on my blog, and I have lots of photos of V/M. Here are Part I (http://jennifercomeaux.blogspot.com/2012/03/worlds-2009-nostalgia-part-i.html) and Part II. (http://jennifercomeaux.blogspot.com/2012/03/worlds-2009-nostalgia-part-ii.html) I'll be posting the remainder of the series this week and next!

Bournekraatzfan
03-12-2012, 08:12 PM
I think T&S should have their ex numbers choreographed elsewhere as that would give them another perspective.

me too! who did you have in mind? Did you like the work they did with David Wilson, "Jack and Diane"? I am hoping to see them work with Shae-lynn or with Julie Marcotte.

Bournekraatzfan
03-12-2012, 08:13 PM
I'm doing a series reflecting on 2009 Worlds on my blog, and I have lots of photos of V/M. Here are Part I (http://jennifercomeaux.blogspot.com/2012/03/worlds-2009-nostalgia-part-i.html) and Part II. (http://jennifercomeaux.blogspot.com/2012/03/worlds-2009-nostalgia-part-ii.html) I'll be posting the remainder of the series this week and next!

thanks so much! I really enjoy reading your blog and looking through your collection of photos.

Emdee
03-12-2012, 08:33 PM
I was thinking Muriel Zazoui.
Lambiel ? He is so artistic

K& P who can give them the mature yet ethereal love angle.

Some of these may not be COP friendly but I remember what Kurt said about choreographing for Patrick Chan. It was so hard to do it as Patrick was so good at everything. Yet I love the number Kurt did for Patrick and its so different from what Lori does for him. Similarly input from some different source may give them inspiration . These thoughts are just rushing around my head and have not come to full fruition so if anyone wants to take this idea further help me out!

lavenderblue
03-12-2012, 08:37 PM
I'm doing a series reflecting on 2009 Worlds on my blog, and I have lots of photos of V/M. Here are Part I (http://jennifercomeaux.blogspot.com/2012/03/worlds-2009-nostalgia-part-i.html) and Part II. (http://jennifercomeaux.blogspot.com/2012/03/worlds-2009-nostalgia-part-ii.html) I'll be posting the remainder of the series this week and next!

Seconding the thanks! Great photos and write-ups.