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View Full Version : Virtue/Moir Thread 15: The Subject for Tonight's Lecture is Rhythm



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aka_gerbil
03-08-2012, 02:55 AM
They left because

C) Meanwhile, the gap that V/M and D/W were closing continued to close, and they were without the political protection of Shpilband they fell behind. It didn't help that Linichuk gave them pretty awful programs during the Olympic season

Some of us actually liked those programs. ;) I know I'm repeating myself, but I thought they were reminscent of their earlier work in Canton. They definitely became known for their perk, but B/A's didn't start out that way with their FD's.


It could probably be argued forever whether it turned out to be a good decision (IMO it wasn't). And it's a cautionary tale for V/M.

For B/A, though they may have not gotten the placements they deserved, their skating skills were definitely improved. It's also worth mentioning that we don't know how things would have turned out if they'd stayed in Canton. For all we know, they could have been pushed even further behind, even faster.

I also don't think that what happened with B/A would happen with V/M. The situations and issues aren't the same.


Thanks for taking the time to lay this all out for me. Wow I hope it wasn't option B why they left cuz that would be shady for Marina to have done :(. And I hope it wasn't option B for why they started losing. Anyways if this is the same obstacles T/S would face if they left Marina and Igor I hope they stay.

Sadly, I think it probably definitely was a contributing factor. Linichuk's quite loyal to Russia and Russian teams. I know I basically just said this above, but I don't think T/S would have quite the same obstacles as B/A did just because there are different dynamics involved.


Yea I don't think wearing her hair down would work or maybe it would IDK. Tessa doesn't wear her hair down often which iI think she should cuz she looks great with it down. But anyways maybe if she re-positions the bun a little lower around the nape of her neck. Lol I don't rmr her wearing a bun for the ex I need to go rewatch it.

I love her hair down too, especially with it getting so long now as I in general love long hair. I wonder if maybe it's too distracting in competetive programs though.

At the 4CC exhibtion, she did have it in a bun sort of similar to the one she used for the SD last year.

Proustable
03-08-2012, 03:14 AM
I tend to agree that the dynamics at play are different, but I also think that those dynamics mean that V/M would never leave Zoueva/Shpilband.

zilam98
03-08-2012, 04:01 AM
just a bit going back to 4cc.

how is it that v/m skated their fd without as much signs of fatigue from the altitude as d/w did? how true is it that d/w's fd is more intricate than v/m's even though by judges' standards, the latter is technically better?

Proustable
03-08-2012, 04:33 AM
just a bit going back to 4cc.

how is it that v/m skated their fd without as much signs of fatigue from the altitude as d/w did? how true is it that d/w's fd is more intricate than v/m's even though by judges' standards, the latter is technically better?

a) Charlie has asthma.

b) Intricate dances would be rewarded in PCS, particularly in the choreography component, along with the linking movement/footwork component. V/M, at the GPF and 4CC, had harder, better elements, according to the judges. There's this idea that TES is entirely technical and PCS entirely artistic, and that's false.

Shayii
03-08-2012, 04:45 AM
I also don't think that what happened with B/A would happen with V/M. The situations and issues aren't the same.

At the 4CC exhibtion, she did have it in a bun sort of similar to the one she used for the SD last year.

Mmm why aren't the situations and the issues the same. The reason T/S would leave Canton is if they're not winning like they want to, right?

And yes I went rewatch the video it does look like she had it for the SD last year. I'm actually thinking it might work for Funny Face.

flowerpower
03-08-2012, 05:07 AM
just a bit going back to 4cc.

how is it that v/m skated their fd without as much signs of fatigue from the altitude as d/w did? how true is it that d/w's fd is more intricate than v/m's even though by judges' standards, the latter is technically better?

It's been mentioned that Charlie suffers from asthma, so perhaps he struggled more with the altitude than some of the other skaters, though I don't claim to know medical details.

About intricacy - on both the Nats and 4CC broadcasts, Tracy Wilson commented about the extremely high level of detail and hidden difficulty of V/M's free dance. She specifically mentioned the high level of control and effort required to maintain that detail (e.g. line, unison, toe point and arm position, expression, synchronization of body movement to the musical beats). She sees their free dance as extremely intricate and demanding.

zilam98
03-08-2012, 05:11 AM
a) Charlie has asthma.

b) Intricate dances would be rewarded in PCS, particularly in the choreography component, along with the linking movement/footwork component. V/M, at the GPF and 4CC, had harder, better elements, according to the judges. There's this idea that TES is entirely technical and PCS entirely artistic, and that's false.

then how come meryl looked affected as well? what about alex shibutani and the other lower ranked skaters that showed that altitude effect?

flowerpower
03-08-2012, 05:24 AM
then how come meryl looked affected as well? what about alex shibutani and the other lower ranked skaters that showed that altitude effect?

Alex Shibutani had a respiratory infection, that week, and really had it tough, if I'm not mistaken. In Meryl's case, if your partner is struggling, you may find yourself working unexpectedly hard to compensate.

Lower ranked skaters don't necessarily train and prepare at the same level as the top teams.

Fort
03-08-2012, 05:25 AM
Pretty much all the skaters showed fatigue greater than normal at the end of their routines, including VM. Scott's usually exuberant at the end; at 4CC he looked wiped. And Tessa held it together on the ice pretty well, but the moment she got off that ice, she was sitting down. Alex Shibutani was suffering from a viral infection, and so he was very badly off, while Maia seemed pretty good. I have no doubt that Meryl was tired and winded, but I think she let it show more because Charlie did; IMO she seemed to be 'supporting' him (not literally, like I felt with Maia and Alex, but sympathetically -- putting her head near his, patting him).

flowerpower
03-08-2012, 05:40 AM
Pretty much all the skaters showed fatigue greater than normal at the end of their routines, including VM.

Yes indeed. There is one version of their FD where you see Scott's face as he embraces Tessa at the end; his jaw is dropping open and he almost sags around her neck.

When the in-rink interviewer asked V/M whether they stayed in the K&C afterward to watch Meryl and Charlie, Tessa says that they were so exhausted at first, they couldn't move. :lol:

Emdee
03-08-2012, 01:42 PM
There is no question that D&W's dance was high energy. The contention amongs many of us is that high energy does not necessarily equate higher difficulty. Control and intricacy can be a lot more difficult.

A case in point is Misha Ge's LP in the FF. Compare his hand flapping with Patrick Chan's controlled performance.

Golightly
03-08-2012, 05:50 PM
Guys, we also have to remember that not all skaters use their body the same way. I always use this example: see Rafael Nadal and Roger Federer. At the end of a match, you see Nadal and he looks exhausted, his shirt is all sweaty. Now, look at Federer, he never looks as if he particularly tired.

This is not about intricacy, it's about the way you breathe and your skating style. Tessa and Scott take their time finishing each movement, they are not as rushed, that allows them to administer their energy much better, in my opinion. Tessa, particularly. I assume that her special training helped her cope with the altitude. So, just because Virtue and Moir didn't look as tired as Davis and White did, doesn't mean they weren't. It just affected them in a different way.

euterpe
03-08-2012, 05:59 PM
Neither Tessa nor Scott has asthma. Charlie White does---that's why he was so exhausted.

sap5
03-08-2012, 07:49 PM
I see that Maia and Alex Shibutani have launched their own website, and it looks great! What is it going to take to get the Olympic Champions to launch a website that works and is a good place to go to for information?

I wish they had better representation.

maggylyn
03-09-2012, 01:22 AM
I see that Maia and Alex Shibutani have launched their own website, and it looks great! What is it going to take to get the Olympic Champions to launch a website that works and is a good place to go to for information?

I wish they had better representation.

Do they have representation?